Utter idiot's guide to buying a budget turntable

I'm not writing one, I hasten to add! On the contrary, I am in need of such a guide as I recently got a wad of cash for my birthday and have [just about] decided to spend it on a turntable.

I have 300 quid to spend, though I could probably stretch to 4-500 (maybe a little higher...) if it seemed really worth it.

First things first - I have no vinyl. This is a problem I won't have trouble remedying, though. I guess my main reason for wanting a record deck is to open up the music discovery possibilities - I like the idea of walking into a 2nd hand record shop (of which there are many in Edinburgh) and not being restricted to the CD section. Besides, the vinyl section always looked so intriguing and enticing....

Second, my other main argument for getting a turntable is that it'll cost a lot more than 300 quid to get a significant upgrade on my CD player.... sigh...

So I don't need this to be the best vinyl-spinner in the world. Just something that'll sound good, be fun to listen to, and allow me to enjoy whatever records I happen to get my hands on. Oh, and, if at all possible I'd very much like to keep a wide berth from the realms of anal-retentive turntable tweakos - I'm happy putting a little more time and care into the deck and the discs than my CD player and its food of choice, but I'd like to keep it as low-hassle, fit-and-forget as the format will allow! So no crazy esoterica that'll need constant attention to sound bearable!

So far I'm considering the usual suspects of modern budet turntables - namely, Pro-Ject and the low-end Regas. I've also noted that a favourite newby recommendation is a 2nd-hand old-style Rega Planar 3. And finally I've been recommended a 2nd-hand Linn LP12 as being a tad more expensive but a whole lot better than anything else in the sub-500 bracket.

How's that sound? What else should I consider? And what useful tidbits of info can you bestow on a newby like me? Hints/tips/suggestions/rules of thumb/dos and don'ts/etc...?

Assume complete and utter ignorance on my part! All I know about this is that I need a turntable, an arm, a cartridge, and a phono stage (and some records!) - and that it gets rather mind-boggling from there...!

Cheers,

Dunc

 

Depending on how much you decide to spend, I'd go for any of a secondhand or ex-dem Rega Planar 3, Rega P25 or Nottingham Analogue Horizon. All are fit and forget, easy to set up, no bouncy suspension to worry about. I wouldn't as a first deck recommend anything that requires a lot of faffing about to get it optimally set up.

I wouldn't spend any more than about £400 on a deck before amassing a collection of at least 300 records. With a bit of care setting up the arm and cart any of these decks will be as good as or perhaps better than your CD player provided you're not playing shagged out vinyl IMO.

Stick with an MM cartridge, you can't go wrong with anything from the Goldring 10xx range. ATCs MM/MC phono board for the CA2 is very good but costs about £300, the Graham Slee Gram Amp 2 MM phono stage is about £125 and very good for the money by all accounts.

-- Ian

 

I am not sure what you mean by that.Its like saying don't go for a decent cd player unless you have loads of cds,it doesn't make sense.Get the best you can afford regardless of the size of the collection surely would make more sense?

i have a Rega Planar 3,so can recommend it,but CD still sounds better,but its good enough,and avoid the bog standard Project phono stage,its horrid 9in my system)

 

Saab

i'm with Ian on this, but then i've a couple of thousand records at home, it's my age. anyway. I would have thought the monies best spent on music till DB's got a few hundred lying around. what , for example , would you say to someone who had not one cd and was thinking of spending 400 ukp on a cdp?

me i'd spend 120 on a second hand rega , get a dealer to look at it , get a new cart ( denon dl110) a project 40 quid phono stage and still have 200 to spend on vinyl. that's 200 records second hand.


btw if you cdp sounds better your cart is probably shagged


another question - what the hell am I doing at work at this hour (0645)

 

Thanks for the quick replies. I suppose my main concern at this point is I really have no reference point for how these turntables are going to sound, either compared to my CD player, or to each other. Is there a lot of difference in tonality, presentation, or ability between, say, a Rega P3 and a Pro-Ject 1Xpression..?

I've got a demo scheduled at a dealers where I'll bring along my Meridian and will be able to compare it to some record decks, but that's not till next (next) Saturday and I have a feeling I might cave in to temptation and nab something before then....

As for how much to spend, well it's a good question. As a hifi fiend I feel like I should spend as much as I can afford and get the best sound I can afford, but then my brain kicks in and tells me I don't even know if I'm going to follow throught with this whole vinyl plan - I imagine any number of things could make me lose interest (don't like the hassle, don't like the sound, don't have the space for lots of records, whatever), so it just doesn't make sense to spend big bucks on something I may not want to stick with. Much more sensible to buy something decent but cheap and dip a toe in the medium before going all-out. This is where buying a 2nd hand Rega or Linn becomes a much more sensible than a brand new Pro-ject as the former won't really lose its value unlike the latter...

But on the other hand, maybe the sound of a cheap turntable won't be enough to win me over and I'll be prematurely put off vinyl because of the sound quality when if I'd only spend a couple hundred more I would've been dancing in the streets... (These are the kinds of thoughts that keep me up at night... I need help...)

So yeah, non an entirely straightforward decision. I think my plan to spend 300 is a pretty happy compromise. It's not an exhorbitant amound but it should be enough to give me a bit of real choice and I'll hopefully end up with something that'll keep me happy until I can afford a more costly deck.

Anyway, keep the ideas a-flowin'!

Dunc

 

Music first, playback equipment second is always my view. I'd never contemplate buying any hifi that cost me more than my music collection did. But that's just me.

Duncan, don't rely on dealer demos for anything. For a start, very few dealers nowadays actually know the basics of how to setup a TT properly. The only other thing I'd suggest is not to get hung up on CD/vinyl A/B testing. Having a TT is primarily about having access to 50 years of cheap great music IMO. Having said that, IME people who get what vinyl does rarely find that CD does the intangible thing of naturalness as well as their record player does. Spend a couple of hundred quid on a secondhand Rega P3 (don't bother with a Project, the resale value is no good), buy a dozen secondhand albums and a cheap phono stage like the Project John suggests, and spend a couple of weeks with it at home. If you don't like it, you'll be able to sell the Rega for what you paid for it.

-- Ian

 

ian,
for me the music or playback spend has always been down to personal choice. taking your logic to the ultimate (in this case) duncan would just buy a hod load more cd's. however looking at it from the other perspective you could argue that getting the best from what software you do have is also a laudable goal. personally i think it should be a balance between music and equipment and last time i counted my kit and collection were worth about the same (at the prices i paid). so i can be smug about this.
cheers


julian

 

I agree with Julian. If I was going to get into vinyl (still a possibility at some stage) I'd start off with just a handful of LPs. Does that mean I should get a £50 Goodmans record player from John Lewis to play them on ? I'd really want any TT I bought to sound at least as good as my DAC64, better really (DAC64 vs. vinyl jokes not required ).

Michael.

 

Duncan has no LPs at all. So it make no sense at all to spend a lot of money, unless he really wants to. He's trying to work out whether its worth the plunge. A secondhand Rega Planar 3 or P3 with a decent budget MM is easily good enough to do that IMO, and will be resellable for what he bought it for if he either decides to abandon the idea or upgrade to a better deck in the future. It's free hi-fi. He could spend a lot more and buy a secondhand LP12 on the same basis, but more work is involved getting it properly set up, so my view is still that if he's worried a P3 won't be good enough to make a proper judgement, he should consider a P25 or Notts Analogue Horizon. But the main thing is to buy a reasonable selection of records, a couple new and pristine, but mostly good condition secondhand, and just play them at home and see if he likes the experience of going secondhand record shopping, finding something new and interesting for a couple of quid, and then collapsing on the sofa listening to great records. If he does, comparisons with the CD player will become totally irrelevant.

-- Ian

 

Mmm that sounds good - that's exactly what I'm hoping for.

Just wish I had a sofa to collapse on instead of this spindly Ikea chair of mine... sigh...

Dunc

 

Just had a thought - none of my favourite online CD shop haunts (CD-Wow, Play) sell vinyl... are there any good online shops that sell new (and/or used?) vinyl at decent prices?

Dunc

 

Ian, I think your suggestions for a Rega P3 etc you made are excellent and certainly no point in going overboard, afterall this thread was about a budget TT but I was just taking your "not spend more on kit than on music" to a bit of a silly extreme

Michael.

 

Can anyone compare the style/presentation of Pro-Ject, Rega, Nottingham Analogue, and the LP12 perchance...? Just generally? Also, how much of an improvement is there in going from a Planar 3 to a P25 or so..?

Dunc

 

Rega.

There are some bargains to be had.

A quick look on ebay found this from a uk seller.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=3283&item=5726568965&rd=1

Some would say the K9 cart is a little brash, but works great with rock.

Don't worry too much about age with a TT if the condition (bearing/motor esp.) are good. I recently used a Michell focus one (about 18 Years old) as the front end of a £6000 system at a hifi show with very good results.

Expect to pay about a tenner for a new drive belt if the TT is more than 5 years old or been left unplayed for a long while.

Spend about 150 for a used TT and buy loads of vinyl, theres lots available used at bargain prices.

Enjoy the Music

Chris

 

Duncan

I'd second Sideshow Bob's thought about looking at a good tidy used or ex-dem deck before putting your hand in your pocket for a new one. If you buy privately you'll hardly lose any money if you then decide to sell it. Don't know how much a used Gyrodeck or Xerxes or something similar would cost - but even fiitted with a modest arm/cartridge this would sound great, with the possibility of upgrading the arm/power supplies/cartridge later on if you wanted to take things further.

Another way of looking at it is that there are hundreds of secondhand records in charity shops everywhere, and those shops can't wait to get shot of them for piddling amounts of money. Whatever you spend on a turntable you'll more than likely get loads of great-sounding disks for little cash. The rest of your system sounds great, it'd be a shame to settle for second-best...

Have you thought about asking anyone on the forum whether you could hear their t/t, and go from there ??.

Paul

 

I have a Project Debut II, I have to replace the cartirdige/stylus anaually but other than it requires little work.

It sounds as good as my Marantz CD6000OSE LE which did cost much more RRP than my tt. I think a Rega 3 will be fine, it will sound better than my project and my project is good enough. I am using an old Rotel 870Bx premap as the phono preamp though. This is a high quality unit and they cost a lot in the late 80's.

I wouldn't go for a second hand unit unless you know what you're doing, I have always been unlucky inthis area so I only ever buy new turntables now.

 

If you are thinking of a guide for a budget turntable rather than specific recommendations, then surely you need to ask some questions first. Some suggestions:

1. Does your amp have a reasonable phono stage already? Is it MM or MM/MC? (so you know if you need to budget for a phono stage or not)

2. Do you want to spend time tweaking and adjusting or do you want something which is set once then play? (Both valid approaches and it depends on your temperament)

3. Do you envisage playing a lot of records and what would you consider reasonable in terms of maintenance costs (styli wear out and MM styli are a sight cheaper to replace than a whole MC cart or a retip)

4. Do you plan to play a lot of old used and possibly abused vinyl or just pristine stuff? (something else which could affect cartridge choice - possibly)

5. Where do you plan to situate your turntable? (could have some bearing on your shoice of suspended or non suspended deck)

6. Are you (or your partner or your kids) ham fisted - again could have some bearing on suspended or not or even a semi or fully automatic.

7. Do looks matter?

8. Do you play 45s at all? Decks requiring platter removal or similar pain in the arse operations to switch from 33 to 45 and back are ... well ... a pain in the arse if you do.

9. Are you willing to go 2nd hand?

.....

I'm sure there's more.

 

A few more thoughts to add:
- Some of the LP based systems I've heard recently have sounded completely wonderful, e.g. Garyi's (LP12), Sideshows (Mitchell I believe) and another LP12 based one. You need to have a seriously good CD based system to compete
- LP is not necessarily "better", more a question of different to LP. If you prefer it's presentation style, CD just won't do
- I've heard a Rega P3 (your price range) against a Naim CD5i. I didn't think there was much between them overall. Based on that, my personal view is that I'd want something better than a P3 to make LP worthwhile
- Because LP does present differently to CD, it means that the "optimisation" of the rest of your kit to work with your source is likely to be different. That could create a compromise system resulting in neither sounding at their best.
For example, I heard an LP12 based system last year. It was awesome. Switch to CD though and it was unlistenable it was so unpleasant. Thinking about it post the event, it was simply that the system had been tweaked to work at it's best with LP.
- The extra money you might well spend on a decent deck and LPs could give you a substantial improvement to your CD player

I've thought along very similar lines to yourself and have considered LP, but have rejected it to focus on CD only.

 

Stop fussing

Hardly anything new in my suggestion: Get a decent Rega P3 - either new or second hand. I haven't heard your Meridian cd player, but my guess is that the Rega will outperform the Meridian in some respects, in others it won't. But the TT will most certainly give you access to a whole lot of music that will either be very expensive and/or very difficult to get on cd. Get the hardware to enjoy the software!

Thom

 

Before you go into this do some research around your town.
I bought a tt set up a couple of years ago , my mind was full of romantic ideas of trawling through s/h shops finding decent vinyl .
Then I realised my town only has one s/h vinyl shop worth talking about and the prices weren,t cheap .
So unless you actually get out to larger cities(I don,t) where you actually have a lot of choice , make sure that your home town actually has some decent vinyl shops.