Valve power amps with solid tuneful bass?

I'd stick with the Lavardin if I was you its a superb amplifier. Look at other system changes first. To really change the sound change the speakers, there are just so many options and they all sound different. In fact very different to the Quads!

Cheers

Jason

 

The speakers are going nowhere! I know for sure I am not going to find anything better for me than the quads, especially as I prefer low to mid volume levels.

I've heard from forums and mags that electrostatics are supposed to go well with valves if they have enough power, hence my thoughts on trying it out.

 

>>> The speakers are going nowhere! I know for sure I am not going to find anything better for me than the quads, especially as I prefer low to mid volume levels.

That is exactly the right conclusion imho.


>>> I've heard from forums and mags that electrostatics are supposed to go well with valves if they have enough power, hence my thoughts on trying it out.

Electrostatics and OTL valves is reputedly a match made in heaven but your Lavardin is such a neutral amplifier that the majority (all?) valve amps will sound overly warm in comparison imho of course.

If you want a little more warmth look at the front end and the cabling and have less toe in on the Quads ;->

Cheers

Jason

 

If you're looking for firm bass and added warmth, why not add a big subwoofer? Something like the B&W ASW800 could be just the job - bottom end extension is reputedly the only real weakness of the Quad electrostatics, and that'll make a big difference to orchestral music.

 

Alan,

I don't think a valve amp exists that would suit all of your requirements.

You can get plenty of bass and just as important 'grip' from some of the Audio Research range especially the older (more affordable) D series and the VT series have some marvellous performers. I am currently considering a pair of VT 150's, they are amongst the ugliest of amps I have ever seen, but I am lucky enough to be able to buy for sound only, I have actually seen better looking welding sets!!!!!

The other range to look for is the EAR from TDP. Many years ago I had a pair of 509's they would meet your bass requirement, but they are hot and not exactly pretty.

Many of the Apogee group are moving to digital, most favoured are the amps built on the B&O ICE module. Do a search for H20 on their web board. Many reports on them sounding "Valve Like", no heat, smart design, fair price at US$1999.00. The maker will make 240V / 50Hz versions. I may still go that way myself.

Ken

 

<<If you're looking for firm bass and added warmth....

Hang on.... I am not looking for more warmth and bass than I've currently got.... The Lavardin is a neutral amp but its on the warm side of neutral , it manages to do natural warmth without any softness. I totally and increasingly understand that I may be foolish to think of replacing it.

Also, the Quads have plenty of bass.... there is a myth that says they don't but in my room which is not vast and with plenty of care over positioning I get full, rich and non-sludgy bass to a very good depth, for example can certainly can feel the organ pedal in Saturn from 'The Planets'.

The reason I asked about a valve amp with good tuneful bass is that my very limited experience of valve amps at dealer demos has left me with impression that bass was somewhat limited and slow... could be totally wrong here, and I cannot remember what valve amps I've heard.

What I really want to get is more presence, imaging, envelopment.... people who have heard my system think its got it in bucketfuls but I can never have enough.

Regarding subwoofers.... I have tried a subwoofer with very good results in previous incarnations of my system. Several years ago I had Ruark Templar sealed box mini floorstanders with a REL Strata sub - the combo was wonderful - not just the depth but the ease and scale of the music - and I don't think I had anything better than it until I got the Quads.

However, I have also tried using a sub with the Quads, just as an experiment, and it just doesn't work - integrating dipolar speakers and a sub is not easy, maybe would work with something like Tact RCS. I either got nothing from the sub or a horrible blanket of 'farty' bass.

I might think about the front-end again, but funds are limited as I don't have anything to sell, I'd definitely be holding on to the recently acquired Shanling for its superlative SACD playback. I'm pretty happy with its CD playback too.

 

If you want to test bass levels (and you've a handy dvd player) get an AVIA test disk, it does a sweep all the way down to 20hz so you can see roughly where you're cutting out.

 

alan, Thats exactly what I thought until I heard a pair if ESL63s in a decent sized room. There's absolutely no need for a sub, they go plenty deep enough.

Absolutely. it not worth the effort without some form of digital equalisation IMO.

 

I think a digital amp will give you lots and lots of clean power. Power, depth, bass and clarity.

A good valve amp can (somehow) provide a natural timbre to instruments and voice giving a more organic feel.

Different valve amps sound so different to each other, you really have to try some to get an idea of what works and doesnt work for you.

Try and borrow a couple of good valve amps from somewhere like Audio Salon in Glasgow or Connoisseur Audio in Fife.

A Graaf, Border Patrol push pull (to get a bit more power for your ESL's) wouldnt be bad places to start.

 

I have already arranged for home demo at the weekend - Graaf GM50B integrated, Electrocompaniet DAC..... The dealer also does Bel Canto and has one their evo2 amps 2nd hand so may ask for a go of that.

I'm afraid Connoisseur Audio are out of the picture, I had a short email correspondence with them a few months ago about DACs and then heard nothing from them, despite promptings.... something badly wrong there.

 

Including the fundamental of the E (just below 21Hz), the first note the organ plays? You'd be doing well with 988s I think

To be honest it sounds like you're so happy with what you've got you maybe shouldn't bother changing anything, unless you want to look at a room correction system.

 

You need peaks of 40v with Quad Electrostatics. There's no point having more. In power terms this translates to between 80 and 100W into 8 Ohms.

I use an old Linn LK280 with Quad ESL63a and I think it works really well. I don't see the point in having a transparent speaker and deliberately clouding the picture with a valve amp. If your current amp has enough go and sounds OK then I'd spend your money somewhere else.

BTW my power amp lives on the floor under a sofa.... I've plans to excavate a 10 foot hole in order to install a Mana stack while maintaining the child safety aspect of the sub-sofaism.

Paul

 

Paul
Can you explain how you equate (or it equates) ?

 

I assume you mean volts->power?

Ohms Law, Volts = Current x Ohms, Current = Volts / Ohms
Power = Volts x Current

Therefore Power = Volts x Volts / Ohms.

40v peak is 0.7x40v = 28v rms.
26v into 8 Ohms is 28x28/8 = 98W

QED.

Paul

 

yep, i get it now.
Never applied it to audio though.
Thanks

 

Ah paul. The same old prejudices. Valve amps really can be quite transparent you know. They are often far more enjoyable to listen to than transistors as well. Honest.

Edit : I used to have similar views to you until I actally heard a couple of decent ones in my system and in another good system. Forget the theory, use your ears.

 

Robbo, was it not a big change from DPA to ARC?
I want to try some ARC, but not easy to get a demo, i will one day tho!

 

Andy,

Yes, the ARC is significantly better in every area (which is quite unusual for amp changes IME). Together with the 1SCs, they are a match made in heaven and much more then the sum of their parts. Especially now I have optimised positioning, supports etc.

You are always welcome to come over for a listen.

 

When i get an MOT i may take the offer, thanks

What ARC amps is it you use, i have spotted a few VT50's around.
Also tempted with bel canto, tbh i cant realy fault the rotel, but it is like having a JCB in the room.

 

I enjoy fiddling with amps myself, I do find the changes quite apparent, more so than cd players.