whats this guff?

Heard some awful cobblers on the old radiogram

Some bloke with a name that sounded like ''iron audi'' ?!

What an utter load of old guff.

He played piano like a ten year old.

Anyone know anymore so I can avoid?

Also some cobblers ''Vaughn Williams'' what chuffing rubbish.


I heard some Mahler and quite liked it.
Whats a good place to start?

 

You've been listening to classic FM. If you want to be turned off classical music just keep listening to it. I can stand it in 3 minute doses but more than that make me start screaming at the radio.

Einaudi - Classic FM push him relentlessly, sort of new age contemplative dross - for "Relaxing" as Classic FM relentlessly put it. I hate the classic FM line on classical music being for Relaxation, as if it was nothing more than that.

And they only play 2 pieces by Vaughan Williams, the Lark Ascending and Greensleeves. But he also wote a lot of very good music, so don't write him off.

As for Mahler... probably a fair few threads around here with recommendations, a lot of people seem to obsess on him. I'd start at the beginning with his 1st Symphony, lots of good performances on CD and sure to find 2nd hand vinyl around too, look out especially for Rafael Kubelik/Bavarian Radio on DG, Leonard Bernstein with New York Phil on Sony/CBS or with Concertgebouw on DG.

 

Einaudi? Certainly not classical, and not really music either to be honest . From the 'mindless is the new profound' school of thought; his music really, really gets on my nerves something shocking.

Mahler 1 is probably the obvious place to start, or perhaps 5; Mackerras is reliable for 5 (on EMI Classics for Pleasure or HMV Classics), while Maazel on Sony Essential Classics is very good indeed in 1, and those CDs should cost you a fiver or less each.

I'd agree that Classic FM gives a rather unbalanced view of VW's output - they also love to play the too-twee-for-words English Folksong Suite, though I must say I actually really like the Lark. The less 'cowpat' stuff he wrote doesn't seem to get the airtime it deserves.

 

The English Folksong Suite, twee? Hardly! I find it decidedly vigorous - at least, as played by the RNCM wind band on Chandos (terrific recording too, as usual from this label).

The use of the derogatory term "cowpat" to describe the pastoral school of English 20th century music originated with that great composer (not) Elizabeth Lutyens, an early advocate of the twelve-tone system in Britain. I wouldn't trade Vaughan Williams' shortest song for her whole output.

As for Classic FM, with its smarmy disc jockeys and music as Mogadon... just don't go there.

 

Solti/LSO on Decca gets a big thumbs up from me for Mahler 1.

I bought some non-folksy Vaughn Williams LPs t'other day and will report back on how they sound.

 

Mahler: I'd start with symphonies 1, 3 and 4, none of which is overbearingly neurotic. Then I'd skip the rest and listen to Bruckner instead

The recording of Mahler 4 by George Szell with the Cleveland Orchestra is one I love (not that there aren't lots of other good ones). The principal horn has an important role in most Mahler symphonies, and Szell had a priceless asset in Myron Bloom, who makes a wonderfully rich, stirring sound. His soprano is Judith Raskin - not famous for any other disc, but she too is great; never a wobble to be heard. If there have to be sopranos, more of them could do with being like her.

http://www.mdt.co.uk/MDTSite/product//SBK46535.htm

 

Two words sum up Classic FM for me: David Mellor.

 

There is far too much of a whiff of cowpat about much of English music, Delius's meanderings, Vaughan Williams some of the time, Walton's big works that never seem to go anywhere, Finzi, a composer so great they had to make a trust in order to pay people to play his music. Elgar mindlessly aping Brahms......
VW's symphonies and film music are great though, I'd start there Chris

 

the problem with Bruckner is that you start to get obsessed and have to have every recording of every symphony by anyone who recorded one - well I do anyway

Seriously though - I'd reiterate what everyone else has said and start with Mahler's 1st if you enjoy Mahler. The 5th is also fantastic but make sure if you get the 6th you are in a very good mood before listening - amazingly moving piece.

As for Classic FM - stay as far away from this crap as you can, switch Radio 3 on and enjoy.

Vaughn Williams made some wonderful music, and while we are on the subject of British music go and get some Granville Bantock (I get fed up of recommending him but Hyperian are releasing some wonderful discs of his stuff), and also if you do get into Bruckner check out some Robert Simpson as well.

Classical music contains a huge array of wonderful music but people like Classic FM spoil it - sorry to be a musical snob but it's true.

 

Mahler 1 is on Performance on 3 this evening, can't find it in the web listing but looks like it must be the second half of the concert which starts at 7.30. Someone at the beeb needs to proof read this page as the timings make no sense but here it is anyway: radio 3
They do however give a decent page to the piece here: Mahler 1

Would no one else go for 2, 8 or 9? I actually find 1 a bit folksy.

I guess I like Mahler big (and maybe a bit nerotic), and 2 was the first one I got to know so it's still a favourite.

 

The only other Mahler I know well is 6 (Sir John Barbirolli conducting) which I find a bit heavy-going (but then I'm a pleb who likes Peer Gynt and suchlike).

 

I like 1 because of its folksiness - there is a tinge of "Fiddler on the roof " about it mixed with Brothers Grimm.... Das Klagende Lied is even better for this atmosphere.

But my favourite Mahler Symphony would have to be the 9th (except when I've just heard the finale of the 3rd). The Ninth is on the edge of something and is endlessly fascinating, especially the first movement. I tend to find I listen to selected movements of Mahler symphonies rather than the whole thing nowadays.

My favourite Mahler is Das Lied von der Erde. But I wouldn't recommend it to beginners.

 

I think we might have touched on this before but any favourites? (I don't have a recording)

 

Klemperer/Philharmonia with the superb Fritz Wunderlich and Christa Ludwig on EMI Great Recording of the Century.
or Haitink/Concertgebouw with Janet Baker and James King (a bit shouty) on Eloquence (Philips budget label).

Both are fantastic recordings, better than any more recent ones I've heard.

 

Haven't heard the first, although with those singers it sounds promising; don't rush out and buy the second, Robert - it's among those LPs and yes, it sounds wonderful on vinyl.

I also like the Bernstein version with King, Fischer-Dieskau and the VPO:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos...2503/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_10_1/026-4861656-5619621

Another fine recording, and the orchestral playing is, of course, deluxe.

 

This is a common situation. Why else do you think that fifty different recordings of Beethovens symphonies or Vivaldis four seasons can be sold at the same time?

Regards,

 

Thanks Nick.

Patience is a virtue!

 

Now that's what I like to see - the rare combination of exquisite taste and common sense. As I said, despite the fact that there's good stuff in all the symphonies - no. 2 in particular is just downright good fun - I still think 1 is probably the best starting point. Most of the rest are just a tad tiringly long for those not yet convinced by Mahler, apart from No. 4 which is frankly a little strange (some gorgeous bits notwithstanding obviously), and also there's the fact that no. 1 is closest to the probably-more-familiar-to-most received tradition.

I think I'd have to come down on the side of Das Lied as my favourite too, though it's a close-run thing between that and the 9th. Baker / King / Haitink are indeed very good in Das Lied, though ISTR that Rattle's version (with, controversially, two men singing) is worth hearing.