Why do rich people pay more tax ?

[Sid and Coke]

As the title suggests why do rich people have to pay more tax than folk who earn less money ?

Why do the super rich have to pay even more again. Aristocricy and 'old' inherited money bags obviously deserve to get hammered ( vive la revolution ... ) . However top show biz stars , footballers , etc, only got to their present position by mostly hard work, dedication and a bit of luck sometimes.

BTW, the idea of this thread isn't intended as a platform for folk to show off how rich, affluent and successful they are, it's just a general, Why ? What was the original reason that differerent tiers of taxation became into being.....

From my own personal point of view when i started my current job i was employed as a 'Mechanic'. When i saw how much more money the engineers got paid i decided to start studying, take some exams and increase my (proffessional) Qualifications to become an 'Engineer'. This took about 3 years of hard graft, all in my own time outside of work. I duly passed all of my exams (and failed plenty along the way) and got promoted & a pay rise.

So if somebody has made the decision to better themselves why should they then have to be punished by paying a higher rate of income tax when they get paid more.

 

[Philip King]

Differention of responsibilities.

The way a government taxes its society helps defines the times we live in. The UK only has a handful of tax bands and thus I would say this increases ones drive to ââ'¬Å"better themselvesââ'¬Â.

 

[Dev]

I'm not sure the filthy rich actually pay enough tax. An extreme example, take a family (any family, not fussed), that has a few castles. After the owner dies, a substantial part of the estate should go to the state as tax, assuming the estate is worth a few pennies. So how is it possible for the property to remain in the family? Normal folks like us cannot put their estates in trust without the government and other vultures taking over half of what we leave behind. Even if it results in their childern starving.

Or have I got it wrong again?.

 

[technobear]

The reason that the UK needs multiple tiers of taxation is because our government is a hideously overweight and inefficient bureaucracy which the nation could not afford with a flat tax rate without plunging millions into poverty.

The rich effectively pay for all the waste. This is why so many of them choose to live elsewhere.

If our government was run like a business, we would not need the higher rates of income tax (nor quite a few other taxes).

 

[Uncle Ants]

Because they can afford to. If you wanted everything that is provided by the state ie. Education, roads, defence, police, etc. etc. to remain paid for by the state, but everyone paid exactly the same amount of tax, most of those working class people at the lower end of income scale would wind up owing the govt more money than they earned and I'd point out that most of them are just as hard working as the super rich.

A more interesting question is to ask what right the government has to tax any of us ... or even to govern?

 

[T-bone Sanchez]

Ive stopped looking at the tax I pay its way too depressing.

IMO the taxing system is very unfair in this country, the level and the way they work out the tax bands is a joke and dont get me started on benefits!

 

[domfjbrown]

Because they can afford to.

...and I'd point out that most of them are just as hard working as the super rich.

What he said.

That said, what do the super rich like the Queen do that's hard work? Sit on your arse and be pampered sounds cool to me...

 

[amazingtrade]

I can see both sides to this argument, much of the working class have manaual jobs which are very hard, probably harder than many middle class type management or other professional jobs which basicaly involve sitting in an air contiitioned office for a few hours a day.

Many of times its not the people who have lower paid jobs fault, its usualy envrionemtal factors which that person could not afford to get a post 16 education so had to start work at 16 probably in a factory or as a labourer or somthing.

I don't think paying a little bit extra tax will hurt, at the end of the day it probably just means you cannot afford some Russ Andrews £500 mains cable (as sold in Maplin for £3.99 minus the RA logo) while that tax is putting food on some body's plate or paying for an operation.

On the other hand I watched a program called Skint last night where some homless person and his son where receiving £800 a month in beniefts, plus he made a good deal of money out of the big issue. God knows why he was recieving so much benefits.

My uncle was a cheif executive electrical engineer at a well known nuclear repocessing plant, he was earning so much that I think he paying about 70%-80% tax at one point.

As a result he drives a rusty N Reg Rover, although the reasons he dosn't have much money isn't to do with tax as such, its his wife's illness.

 

[lhatkins]

Pop Stars, Actors, Footballers, hard work, my arse, should come here, I'll show them hard work. The rich pay more cos they can afford it, they still have plenty of dosh left over, personally I don't think it goes far enough, but I'll leave it at that before I start a flame war.

 

[amazingtrade]

it does seem very unfair that people like my parents cannot afford to get my dads car fixed (needed new rear tailgate and bumper but can't claim on the insurance becuase he will loose his 75% no claims discount), they struggle to find money for the tax every 6 months and people like David Beckham are buying new cars nearly everyday.

 

[Philip King]

David Beckham is the epitome of the free market economy, his personnel worth is a direct result of demand allowing him to charge the rates he does for his services. Whether its correct or not is a different question, and I think we have all realised now that there is no given right for life to be fair.

 

[Bob McC]

Some people on this thread could do with looking at what tax rates are in the UK before contributing to the hysteria. No one in this country pays income tax at 70%!

 

[Philip King]

I think there were rates at that level under labour in the 70's, all be it they came in at pretty high income numbers. Some facts would help here, i'll google it........

 

[I-S]

Unfortunately those are the values of this stupid celebrity culture. Whore yourself to the press and make a mint. Work hard and you might well not. The only way that will change is if people stop looking up to people like the beckhams who give two short planks a bad name.

Writing "management types" off as "sitting in an office for a few hours a day" is silly. Management is not simple, and can be very stressful. There are bad managers out there for sure, but you never hear about the good ones. The good ones are good at what they do and the company or whatever would not function without them. The bad ones seem universally to be those who've set out to become managers from the outset, rather than working their way up in the field. If you don't work you way up in the field, how can you understand what you're managing?

Tax. Tax tax tax tax tax tax. Its where most of my money seems to go. One day when I'm bored I am going to sit down and figure out exactly how much I spend on tax and NI. I've a feeling that it's between 50 and 60% of my income, once you've taken income tax, council tax, VAT, fuel duty, insurance premium tax, road tax, etc into account.

Why do the rich pay more? Because they can afford to. My parents pay more in tax every year than I earn before tax and deductions. They're still pretty comfortable, not that they wouldn't be happy if they didn't have to pay so much.

uncleants - The government is elected. People seem to regard government and establishment (eg police) as "the enemy". Sit and think a minute about how things would be on this little island of 60 million people without government, without law, without tax. It would be a mad free-for-all, where you can and will be murdered for what you have that will benefit someone else and no one will stop it happening. So you'll go to someone bigger, stronger, feared, whatever, who will protect you in return for something (work perhaps). That pretty quickly develops into government. It's just rather more civil this way.

 

[I-S]

I think there were rates at that level under labour in the 80's, all be it they came in at pretty high income numbers. Some facts would help here, i'll google it........

Labour weren't in power in the 80s.

 

[I-S]

Some people on this thread could do with looking at what tax rates are in the UK before contributing to the hysteria. No one in this country pays income tax at 70%!

Not income tax no. But combine income tax, council tax, stamp duty, fuel duty, duty on alcohol and cigarettes, road tax, insurance tax, and particularly VAT and I think you'll find that 70% is more than realistic for some people.

 

[Philip King]

Edited to say 70's, typo, quick though Isaac

 

[amazingtrade]

This was the late 70's when my uncle was paying those tax levels. I do totaly understand why taxes are so high but it does get a bit silly.

I have recently being looking at tax rates for if I decide to setup my own business, and it almost seems not worth it becuase I would have to pay so much in tax, luckily there are minor legal loop wholes which mean small businesses can exist without being taxes stupidly. Either way though whatever job you end up doing you will always pay a lot of tax.

Management type or any office job just seem so much easier than doing somthing like labouring, I don't know how those people do it. I know I couldn't.

 

[Hex Spurt]

In most cases the super rich are super rich because they are wealth generators. Their activity makes jobs for others - even footballers, pop stars and actors. Perhaps it's also worth remembering that for every Beckham, Williams and Hanks there are thousands who didn't make the grade.

There are also thousands of higher income families paying 40% tax to fund education etc and also forking out for school fees on top which means they have less disposable income than a 'working class' family. We're all richer than we were 20 - 30 - 40 years ago, but it's all too easy to point fingers at the those we think have more.

I'd like to think that people are paid what they're worth. This isn't always the case of course, but as a rule it does usually work that way.

The market decides the value of skills and talent, and I don't agree with arguments that office jobs are better paid and easier than manual labour. It conveniently forgets about the extra responsibility shouldered by that person in the air-conditioned car/office. Quite honestly I would trade £5k of my wage for more time with my family and less pressure and a good nights sleep.

Hex.

 

[Uncle Ants]

<snip stuff I mostly agree with>

uncleants - The government is elected. People seem to regard government and establishment (eg police) as "the enemy". Sit and think a minute about how things would be on this little island of 60 million people without government, without law, without tax. It would be a mad free-for-all, where you can and will be murdered for what you have that will benefit someone else and no one will stop it happening. So you'll go to someone bigger, stronger, feared, whatever, who will protect you in return for something (work perhaps). That pretty quickly develops into government. It's just rather more civil this way.

Isaac, I'm not saying we should have no government. I said its an interesting to ask what right they have to tax us or even to govern - not because I necessarily don't think they do, but because of all the other questions it raises about how they do it and where the limits should lie.

The way we are governed seems to assume that because they are the government they have the right to do whatever they want and that's okay because they are elected, but frankly it isn't as simple as that.

Try and step outside it for a while and one way of looking at it (I'm not necessarily saying its how I look at it - it depends on how grumpy I'm feeling that day) is that we as a people collude in supporting a tyranny and elections are merely a choice between one flavour of the same sort of tyranny and another. No it isn't an obvious and blatant tyranny like a dictatorship, its far more subtle than that - so much so that the tyrants don't realise that is what they are and the tyrannised don't realise it either.