Why the probelm with large English brand names?

I have not been on here for very long, however there is one question I would like to ask (and have answered).

Why do most members (I think) seem to have such a downer on some of the larger English brands?

There seems to be very few people happy with Naim, Musical Fidelity, B&W and Meridian to list but a few. Answers like “because they are sh_it", "they are poorly made", "they have crap sound quality", "they bribe magazines for good reviews", would not really be considered acceptable.

Why not, because I do not think any of the above is really true, there might be better sounding gear out there, but none of the above are poor, he_ll they are not even sub standard in any way. Most are considered world class, some considered world leaders in the field.

I have owned all of the above over the years dating back to 1976 (ish), I have never had a problem with any of them, not once have any of them ever been returned to the manufacturer. I have had over a dozen pieces of Naim, eight pieces of Meridian, ten pieces of Musical Fidelity, a couple of B&W's never a fault with any of them. For the record I now only have one item.

The other reason I posted this, is because I am getting sick of the thread called Another pointless Mana debate.(smiley thingy that I don't know how to do)

 

I think it is a matter of taste. I dont personaly like the Naim house sound, but not everyone likes the same.
I think also the zealot attitude of some owners of said kit tends to get peoples backs up.

Im sure the pointless m*** thread will wear itself out

 

I think it's nothing more than personal preferences. I don't think anyone genuinely believes that these or any other makes are "shit". Just a bit of emotion and exaggeration creeps in at times.

Edit: wot Andy said. My typing was interrupted by work .

 

I don't think I could agree with you Ken, I think for patriotic reasons the opposite is true.
People are more likely to turn their noses up at Japs gears than English gears.

Did you get my PM?
Still haven't got that e-mail.

Cheers

 

jesse,

I am not saying people do not buy them, I am saying why do members on this board pour scorn on certain English makes.

Ken

PS
i will try your e-mails again.

 

To reiterate Penance's comments, I think whenever one "camp" express strongly held opinions on any subject, this motivates some people to attempt to balance the equation and thus to more strongly state the opposite - (perhaps sometimes even when they dont really have a strong opposing opinion ).

At the level of personalities, when a person feels their choices are somewhat underminded by the comments of other they feel the need to counter with undermining comments of their own. Naim, for example, has an avid base of loyal customers, many of whom like to express their enjoyment of the product. The countering of this expression of joy seems a natural human response.

Oh yeah, plus the british are a bunch of insecure, winging, backstabbing tossers who love to slag each other off.

 

the phrase familiarity breeds contempt springs to mind here. especially in an area where esoteric is synonimous with 'better'.
cheers


julian

 

My tastes would put Naim and MF at opposing ends of the spectrum sound wise. Both companies have a distinct house sound that they seemingly strive towards, this sound then allows for huge generalisations to be made when talking about their kit. For example I heard a Nait 5/Trivista whatever and therefore.......

MF also take flack as they do seem to update their range every 3 months with a new, must be better than the old one, sales pitch.

The odd one to understand is marketing of hifi, MF with obviously quite a large budget for promotion seem to take stick for having the audacity to advertise, as if hifi is a grail waiting to be found by only those willing to gamble on stuff made in a shed. MF and others are companies that need to make money, having a good marketing team is not a crime.

Another reason this forum can seem a little lees UK centric at times is that a number of users buy kit from the states/elsewhere that isn't available in the high streets and thus diluting the amount of UK kit discussed.

 

True. There are plenty of people who would avoid certain brands simply in order to feel they are swimming against the tide, or that they have discovered a secret. It is hard to take a balanced view on a brand's offering when you have read negative comments as seeds planted by them are hard to completely ignore and can leave you looking for the attribute they referred to.

 

I guess it's because the truth is, you can do better than most of those big brand names if you look around enough. So the simple answer is everyone on this forum is nuts! We all enjoy/think it's actually a worthwhile use of our time looking for these tiny improvements all our lives.

Anyway, who else should we get our anger out on?

 

From a patriotic point of view, and more importantly for the good on the UK economy, I'd always much prefer to buy things that are UK designed and built to anything else, and wish others would too. Does anyone British here realy turn their noses up at homegrown brands purely because they're British? I don't think so to be honest. I think most regular posters are sufficiently bothered about sound quality over other things that they'll go for what they think sounds best, irrespective of where it's from. Just possilbly it's a question of people looking for something different? I mean, people who've been around the UK HiFi scene for a long time are possilby bored with the house sounds of big UK names, and are just looking for something different, rather than better? I don't think so really though.

 

I'd agree to a point that some marketing in HiFi could be classed as dubious, although from the companies perspective after spending so many X thousands of pounds on research etc their hardly gonna run an ad along the lines of "It may sound the same but its in this years colour"

All the companies mentioned so far apart from Meridian make entry-level kit as well as wallet busting stuff. Maybe these companies have realised that brand loyalty is build at a young age and therefore you need a suitable entry point into that brand. BMW 3 series 316i, the car of choice for impressionable young men around the UK. Its marketing and image, not drivability to pulls them to the brand, and that's the entry point. Yes there are better cars, but that's not really the point is it.

 

Sure I would probably always buy British where quality and value met that of overseas competition. However I think the halcyon days of British Hi-Fi representing genuine innovation, quality and value are now over. If I feel a British product is over priced in the hope Hi-Fi-Fools will pay over the odds for the sake of patriotism then I wont be joining these suckers I'm afraid.

 

I don't think anyone has a problem with advertising, the problem lies in the Mags giving glowing reviews to a piece of kit and you also find lots of said manufacturers adverts in the issue, ie Nordost/Hifi+(well roy gregory).

To answer Ken, the Mana thread is not so much against the products, I'm sure they're very good, the thread is a response to the posters, who beleive they have all the answers just coz they like said brand, and their insistence that we should all like it as it is just perfect, so we post defammatory remarks, in response to their zeal, I'm sure there are a lot of happy Naim/Mana customers out htere who are very ahppy with their purchase, however the zealots have to realise that we don't all look for the same answers, when the views are balanced and give advice, for and against, then you get the true picture.

 

Hear, hear. I'm not sure Ken would lump Mana in as a large British brand, but if so - I have no opinion on Mana because I havent investigated it as a solution. My issue is with Bub's arrogant, ill-mannered, repetitive and childish style when advocating and readvocating and readvocating and readvocating Mana as absoutely essential and ideal for everyone. I actually havent read many posts that actually dis Mana as a product, apart from the opinion a few who have experienced it have stated - that it bleaches the tone and texture out of the sound in favour of leading edge dynamics. This isnt a dis, just a constructive counter point.

 

Unfortunately where better than to advertise a new HiFi product but in a HiFi mag.

Clearly the farcical status of HiFI+ and Nordost has reduced my opinion of the magazine to almost worthless, (again nice pics and smell though), but in any specialist area, cars, cycles etc where the innovation cycle is actually very small but also very quick, there will also be a conflict (perceived or not) between magazines selling space and their reviews. A discerning buyer will not base their decision on one information source only.

Edited: For a typo that WM would have been proud of

 

Don't get me wrong, I agree with that, I was just countering the suggestion that people don't buy British simply because it is British. Actually most of my stuff is British, which is nice, but I do have a Danish pre-amp and a growing number of American cables...

 

Looking in from the outside,I actually feel quite proud of the British Hifi heritage,it IS desired the world over,and I believe we are/were one the best at it.British brands are desired the world over,from Quad,Spendor,Harbeth,B&W,Naim,Creek,Rega,Linn,the list is endless,and from what I have heard the sound of most of them is exellent,show me another country with such a heritage,are the american brands desired as much as thoes from the Uk?

My kit is half British,half American,and I'm happy in the sound it makes,of course other countries make exellent kit aswell,but I don't think it is desired like UK based companies.

I went to see a Spanish man the other day,in the middle of no where (Jerez de la frontera)and his kit was British,he said he tried other kits but always came back to UK hifi,I think it's something to be proud of.

 

Yup living in Sweden, which has its share of pretty cool hifi kit, I was surprised and pleasantly proud of the available amount and high respect in which UK kit is held in over here. There's even one guy in town who makes a living out of selling only flat earth stuff.