Would this UPS (Uninterrupted Power Supply) protect and power my gear?

Discussion in 'Pro Audio' started by Dude Japan, Jul 24, 2011.

  1. Dude Japan

    Dude Japan Guest

    Dude Japan, Jul 24, 2011
    #1
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  2. Dude Japan

    Peter Larsen Guest

    Capable of delivering I reckon.
    Those need surge protection, not uninterrupted power.
    http://www.amazon.com/APC-SMT750-Sm...1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1311449486&sr=1-1

    I don't want to answer this in terms of usable for your purpose or not,
    ask APC. But what is it you do not understand about 750 VA in terms of
    VA rating?
    What I will say is that the HP ML110 single dualcore xeon servers on my
    daytime job actually uses from 60 to some 200 watts as measured by their
    ups's, varying with load and disk setup, no monitor included because
    they ain't got one and it would be idiotic to put on the the ups anyway.
    The extra cost of a wee bit larger ups for eah was modest so I ordered
    them generously sized.

    Powerglitches usually last seconds so 20 minutes running time is fine,
    as is even 5 minutes. But you need to be aware that it is probably
    cheaper to get a 1 kW ups that doesn't risk running its battery as far
    down and thus has a longer battery lifetime than to get a small ups that
    runs it battery percentage wise more down when it uses it.

    Lead acid batteries that are constantly charged have a very long service
    life, lead acid batteries that are frequently discharged have a much
    shorter service life. A dedicated starter battery tolerates a single
    digit number of full discharge-recharge cycles.

    APC recommends battery replacement every other year, to me it depends a
    lot on actual usage conditions for the UPS whether it is relevant. For
    workstation use what you need is overvoltage protection first and time
    for an automatic system shutdown inititated by the ups second, for a
    harddisk recorder the required running time depends on whether the show
    goes on sans power or not and on whether micpres and thus mics are
    powered by it as well. For studio use you just need time to stop the
    recording properly so as to avoid disk corruption.

    It would help if you told us which problem it is you want to solve with
    the UPS since you seem to consider running active speakers via it ...

    Kind regards

    Peter Larsen
     
    Peter Larsen, Jul 24, 2011
    #2
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  3. Dude Japan

    Hank Guest

    You need more data to determine the minimum unit. You'll need actual
    power draw measurements for your equipment. That 2-CPU Mac probably
    actually draws around 150 watts. Don't know about the audio setup.
    Typical powered speakers for computers don't draw anything like 500
    watts continuous.

    One clue on actual power consumption is the amount of heat generated
    by the equipment. One kilowatt-hour equates to 3416 BTU. I doubt
    you are generating anything like that amount of heat.

    One parameter you haven't given, which is critical, and that is the
    amount of no-power runtime you need. Unless all you want is
    protection from very short dropouts, you'll want more than "minimum"
    to get battery capacity.

    The APC Smart-UPS line is pretty much the "Cadillac" line of small
    UPS's. APC also makes a much cheaper "Back-UPS" line.

    The "how I know" is that I liberated a pair of 1997 APC SU1400NET
    UPS's at a dot com bankruptcy auction for $100 back around 2001.
    These are equivalent to the current SUA1500 APC product. If I had to
    buy replacements, I'd buy the SUA1500. It's the maximum unit that
    will plug into a NEMA 15 wall socket. A pair of Sun Ultra 60's, a
    couple of Fortigate 60 routers, and a Sony 20-inch CRT monitor draw
    about 30% of the 950 watt/1400 VA capacity, and have about 15-20
    minutes support time available, from one unit.

    Battery life is another issue. I think my boxes are on their fourth
    set. The originals lasted until 2003. I went through a couple of
    Tripp-Lites that only lasted two years, and am about three years into
    genuine APC RBC7's. Life depends on the number of deep cycles, so you
    want capacity to avoid deep cycle use.

    I'd suggest going to the APC website,
    http://www.apc.com/products/category.cfm?id=13
    and using the tools for selection. The product description for the
    SUA 1500 is at
    http://www.apc.com/products/resource/include/techspec_index.cfm?base_sku=SUA1500

    I'd also suggest buying from one of the vendors APC lists in their
    "how to buy" section. These things are not light weight, and you'll
    pay shipping.

    I can't comment on the Back-UPS line, as I'm not running "consumer
    grade" stuff.

    Hank
     
    Hank, Jul 24, 2011
    #3
  4. Dude Japan

    Peter Larsen Guest

    I bought a 350 for my MR8HD back in 2007 when using it in a tent with power
    from a very long extension cord across a lawn, to maintain its battery - and
    to protect apartment server and network implements - it is inline with them.

    The possible audio issue with the back ups line is that they do not supply a
    sinewave looking version of sinewave, according to discussion on the HD24
    list the smart ups actually does that. I wouldn't expect digital gear to be
    a worry, but some analog equipment may perform poorly with too much hf
    overlaid on the power.

    As for "comsumer grade" ... dunno about that, it made more sense for me when
    defining a back office to put a back ups on each server and have it right
    next to it. Fancy new building with heatpumps and ventilation and occasional
    powerglitches that we didn't have in the farm house the administration used
    to be in and do not have in the other buildings and a print/server cubicle
    that is not designed to handle the 1 kWatt combined waste heat in spite of
    the consulting Suit, plain not pinstripe but educated enough to know best,
    being asked whether he had consided the waste heat from the installation.

    Which is silly because it should have been distributed to the rest of the
    building in winter and removed in summer and because it will end up costing
    in terms of equipment life time since everything in that room is running 5
    degrees centigrade hotter than it should have been, even allowing for
    acceptable seasonal variations.
    Kind regards

    Peter Larsen
     
    Peter Larsen, Jul 24, 2011
    #4
  5. A Mac Pro draws too much current at startup or wake for even a 1500VA
    UPS running on battery power, but a 750VA unit will keep it running once
    it's up. Running a Pro _plus_ 500W really needs more than a 750VA unit.
    Consider using a larger UPS, more than one, or running some of that
    hardware, such as the powered speakers, without battery backup. You're
    not going to get more than a few minutes of reliable run-time, enough to
    save and shut down, from any power backup product in this price range.
     
    Neill Massello, Jul 24, 2011
    #5
  6. Dude Japan

    Dude Japan Guest

    OK....

    I'm going to ask this another way...


    I have 1500 Watts worth of Audio Gear

    Please give me a LINK to a (product or products) that

    1.) keeps the computer (probably drawing much less than 1000W after
    start up) running for 90 seconds so I can shut down properly.
    2.) costs under $500
    3.) is noiseless (or under 20 db )
    4.) weighs under 200 lb
    5.) protects everything from power spikes.

    Thanks in advance.
     
    Dude Japan, Jul 24, 2011
    #6
  7. Dude Japan

    Scott Dorsey Guest

    Doesn't exist. Try one of the 2KVA Ferrups units. Put it in the basement
    so the noise and field leakage isn't a problem. The waveform coming out
    of them is very clean and lower distortion than what the power company puts
    out around here. You can often find surplus ones on the used market. They
    are a solid, overdesigned offline unit with a ferroresonant regulator after
    them, which also acts as a low-pass filter and gives very good isolation from
    line noise. If you buy one used, budget around $200 to replace the batteries
    and then about $200 every three years for preventative replacement.

    Don't waste your money on cheap consumer crap.
    --scott
     
    Scott Dorsey, Jul 24, 2011
    #7
  8. Dude Japan

    0junk4me Guest

    I would agree with that. I buy big 140 amp/hr gels that a
    major company locally rotates out and donates to a ham radio
    association, so I"ll rotate a different one into UPS duty
    every time I use my hd24.




    Richard webb,

    replace anything before at with elspider
    ON site audio in the southland: see www.gatasound.com
     
    0junk4me, Jul 25, 2011
    #8
  9. Dude Japan

    Dude Japan Guest

    Scott ,

    Thanks for the advice. Currently my studio has taken over my house.
    The Ferrups looks like a great investment for the next place I
    live.... hopefully a place that I can build from the ground up. I do
    actually get stable voltage from my utility, so I guess that surge
    protection is going to be adequate for me for a while.

    -Clay
     
    Dude Japan, Jul 25, 2011
    #9
  10. Dude Japan

    Scott Dorsey Guest

    If you get stable voltage from your utility than just don't worry about it.
    --scott
     
    Scott Dorsey, Jul 25, 2011
    #10
  11. It held its file and cluster index in RAM.

    It made it a *lot* faster and was so much more reliable than the MS
    equivalent that a lot of companies had lost the Netware engineer's phone
    number by the timeit went wrong. MS systems had their engineer on speed
    dial, and were on first name terms.
     
    John Williamson, Jul 25, 2011
    #11
  12. Dude Japan

    Carey Carlan Guest

    (Scott Dorsey) wrote in
    Where does one look for "surplus ones on the used market"?
     
    Carey Carlan, Aug 1, 2011
    #12
  13. Dude Japan

    Scott Dorsey Guest

    Ebay would be a start. You will have to pick up, though.
    Otherwise ask local surplus dealers and guys who do computer power systems.
    --scott
     
    Scott Dorsey, Aug 1, 2011
    #13
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