zerogain name change -hi fi rage

excuse a newbie comment. but in a previous thread on cables can i agree with Uncle ants in that slagging each other off over these things is a total lack of respect for differing opinions.
I have to cope with car rage all day in busy traffic and really can`t cope with it on a hi fi forum. Perhaps we should change the name to Hi Fi rage.
as an old proverb says " a gentle answer turns away wrath":

 

This illustrates the modern misconception that everyone is entitled to an opinion, no matter how ignorant, ill informed or stupid.
Not everyone agrees with such a position.

 

Yes, agreed.

..that would be good...

 

It also illustrates the inability of many posters to distinguish between giving an opinion and stating a fact.

Stereo Mic, who is the subject of this thread, generally manages to make that distinction.

Oh - and vigorous, intellectually honest discussion should be encouraged. Only when ad hominem arguments are made should moderation step in.

 

Not exclusively...

.....not by a long shot.......

 

It is my opinion that if you are to rely solely on 'facts' for your argument and traduce all before you;
1. you must have them ALL.
2. Facts without insight and interpretation(the human component usually called an opinion) are useless.
3. Facts are the most abused and fascistic of all routes to stifle discourse(jews are inferior, blacks are sub human)-all abominations pedled by people who assembled copious amounts of 'facts' to support their twisted ideologies.
Sadly some people here use facts like a drunk uses a lamp post-for support not illumination.
The factis that all orthodoxies change with time eg 1975, Amp A is 'better' than Amp B because it has measurably lower distortion figures.
How stupid those people who slavishly relied on and waved those figures as 'facts' at others who dared suggest some (lower spec)amps sounded better look now.....
Personally I hate bullies even if on occasion they are right; no one has the right to trash others opinions -niaive or otherwise.
"The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the iniquities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he who, in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of the darkness. For he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is The Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee"-and he was a hired assasin-righteousness is a matter of perspective.

 

The pseudo owners of the truth cant stand different opinions, sad...

 

People who make provocotive statements, or personal remarks often seem to get them thrown back at them. They then make more, and the anger ladder escalates. Too many people who have accused others of mud slinging recently have been chucking it around themselves. If there was only one perpetrator, we'd ban them. There's been so many of them recently, I'm not sure where to start.

 

When facts get in the way of people's opinions their ego reduces them to insults. Puerile but understandable.

It's good to see Markus and others are able to differentiate between one and the other. Sadly, those hurling abuse seem unable do do so.

An Example

Opinion

"Cables tame rooms"

Fact

"That opinion is rubbish and has no basis in truth whatsoever"

Hope that helps.

 

no one has the right to trash others opinions -niaive or otherwise.


so racism, homophobia and misogyny are acceptable standpoints are they?

 

What are you on?

Facts are stubborn things.

Paul

 

Paul I was not using the bible but Pulp Fiction.
Just illustrating the irony of a righteous position. From one perspective he was doing good from another he was an assasin.
I used a piece of popular culture to illustrate a concept-sorry.

 

I think you have totally trivialised even Tarantino. Oh well, whatever...

And what it has to do with the conflict between myth and reality, and the unseemly anger of the mythologisers remains unclear.

Paul

 

Now you're being deliberately silly, the context is opinions on hifi as you well know.

Look at it this way, just the principal nothing else;
My teenage step son comes out with the most idiotic and stupid opinions sometimes-now I can take time out to explain and put him straight, ignore him and let him grow up or I can jump on him and crush him to the point where he'll never express an opinion to me again.
It isn't just snakeoil salesmen who get slaughtered on here but ordinary blokes trying to enjoy their hobby.
Manners maketh the man as they say.

 

It's, erm, really quite simple even for somebody who has difficulty with Tarantino.

If you like your cables, believe you can 'spot' (bit of a giveaway that...) cable differences etc then fine, enjoy your music. If you claim some sort of external 'truth' as a consequence of your experiences, a truth that disappears as soon as it's looked at in a controlled way, then you get into difficulty as what you are professing is belief in magic.

You've got to ask yourself one question. Do I believe in magic? Well do you?

Paul

 

Cables may not tame rooms, but they do have the ability to sound different, and measurements caried out a number of years back by Hi Fi News seemed to confirm this.

It may not be as simple as 4mm copper from A claiming to be better than 4mm copper from B.
I am talking more along the lines of, DNM or solid core taking some bloom out of a pair of Rogers, or Naim Nac having better bass performance than Van Den Hul D-352 in certain systems. Also the way some cables, speakers and amplifiers interact.
A woven cable such as Kimber 8tc is made differently from Chord Odyssey, is it all in the mind that they sound different. How much does dieletric play into this?

There are a few things which seem to get dismissed too quickly. And other who seem quite content to exhasberate claims leaving a small puddle of people who actualy find small differences regardless of the arguments.

So, to be honest, if a loudspeaker such as the Rogers Studio 1 is used in a medium sized 14ft = 18ft room of plasterboard and suspended floor construction, and the amp is a solid state 100w model of low current capability, with 3.5m Van Damme speaker cable of OFC copper 4mm thick, are we surprised at aparent bass bloom in the lower regions? What effect should be expected if we change the 4mm thick copper conductor to DNM solid core? Any difference expected with Naim Nac5?

 

Hopefully for the last time, I don't think anyone is saying all cables sound the same. If cables exhibit extreme differences in their LCR charateristics then they will most likely sound different. This is measureable.

If there are no measureable differences then your eyes are doing the listening. If you claim the differences were jaw dropping, your eyes were doing the listening. If you claim cables of doodaas turned noise into music, your eyes are doing the listening. If people are happy believing in fairy tales that's fine - just don't try to pass them off as facts without bringing considerable evidence to the table to confound the entire scientific community.

As for your Rogers Studio 1 - it's a Rogers Studio 1. What kind of bass do you expect? If you want to reduce the bloom find out the main frequencies (probably 40hz and 160hz if firing across the short wall) and try moving the loudspeaker or listening position into a null at those frequencies.

 

Another couple of thoughts, what if?

If we have the above system with slightly bloated bass, and find getting rid of the thick copper multi strand cable and replacing it with thin DNM tames the lower bass does this in affect mean the cable is "taming" the room?

What if we do not change the cable, but EQ the lower frequency to drop off steeper at 50-40hz, and find this has a similar affect and tames the bass bloom in the lower frequency? Is the EQ taming the room?

What if we do neither of the above and substitute the low current amp for a high current model, and we find this seems to offer tighter bass and better control, making the bass bloom less noticable? Is the amp taming the room?

What if we just put the original system in a room of the same dimension with brick and plaster walls and a concrete floor and ceiling, will the same problems arrise?

Could all the above be quoted as taming a room problem, or a speaker problem, or an amp problem, or is it synergy or something else? Does it matter what one's opinion is regarding the problem if something makes it go away?

Like the off button! The original room tamer?

 

I still think I should wire my Cerwin Vegas up to my Technics SU-MA10 amp with 4mm thick copper multi strand, and get rid of the 1.5mm thick Van Damme.
It is quite obvious that thatter cable will give thatter bass.............

And anyway, thin cable looks silly going into them.