A/B DAC comparison

DrMartin

DrMartin

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Hello,

I'm currently using a Sony XA20 ES as a transport into a Cambridge DAC Magic via SPDIF cable into a Quad 99 pre-amp.

I would like to do a running A/B comparison between the on-board Sony DAC and the DAC Magic.

I was wondering if it would do any harm to anything if I were to keep the Dac Magic running into Aux 1 on the pre-amp but then also connect the analogue output from the Sony into Aux 2 on the pre-amp and then switch back and forth between them in order to do the comparison?

Would this be ok and would it provide a proper comparison or would the output from the Sony get all confused?
 
That should work fine and there is certainly no harm that can be done.

Personally I would say that such a test is absolutely fine and will tell you everything you need to know but there are two things to consider, one important the other arguably less so.

Firstly you must ensure that the two sources are level matched as any difference in replay level can skew the result.
Secondly, any noise on the ground line of one source could potentially pollute the signal of the other as the ground connection on the amplifier inputs is usually common.
It wouldn't concern me at all unless I knew of a particular issue, but such a thing just might influence proceedings.
 
Thanks for that, all done now.

Well, it wasn't perfect because, as Rob mentioned there might be, there was a slight difference in output levels between the two with the Sony's ouput being slightly louder.

That aside, first impressions are that the Dac magic sounds quite a bit brighter than the Sony. There is more detail in the treble with the Dac Magic but I still don't really like the overall presentation which just seems to over-emphasise the higher frequencies.

The result:

I'm now on the lookout for a new CD player & DAC, either integrated or separates. I'm prepared to spend around £2.5k and I want something that gives me all the deatail but without the lean & dry sound that seems so typical of most cheaper CDPs.

I thought about something with a valve output stage? I was looking at reviews of the Shanling offerings last night but they all said that they sounded a bit lean, which surprised me. That's not what I'm after. Has anyone got any suggestions for a CDP with detail & warmth?
 
I think you can expect plenty of suggestions but I'll get in first with Monarchy Audio Dac - latest M24 is well within budget and has tube dac/output stage. Haven't heard it myself but reviews are very positive and designer CC Poon has always made beautiful dacs to my ears - warm, detailed, musical and just 'right'. I use an M22C and you can occasionally pick up one of those second hand. Would leave you plenty for a nice transport (CEC Belt Drive?), or get your CDs ripped to PC.
 
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Thanks for the replies - which led me to do some research. I should point out that I'm a complete novice when it comes to the finer points of the technical aspects of digital reproduction but I'm starting to get a rough idea about what's what and it is all starting to make sense when I relate what I've been reading to what I've been hearing.

You all probably know all this already but I feel the need to set out what I think??? I've discovered so far. From the various articles and forum discussions that I've seen there seems to be a consensus that up-sampling (as opposed to over-sampling) can often produce a harsh / overly bright sound and that a large part of this is caused by 'jitter' (I don't actually know what jitter is yet by the way) Anyway, this would explain (to me at least) the difference in sound that I noticed between the DAC in my 12 year old Sony player and the sound ffrom the DAC Magic, which I found to be a bit bright on first audition.

I'm also led to believe that you can't just plonk any old DAC on the end of any old transport and expect it all to work well together because of something to do with 'clocks'??? I need to look into this a bit more because there is no point in me having the best DAC in the world if it isn't going to work in harmony with my transport?

Oh well, back to the research ...
 
DrMartin said:
Thanks for the replies - which led me to do some research. I should point out that I'm a complete novice when it comes to the finer points of the technical aspects of digital reproduction but I'm starting to get a rough idea about what's what and it is all starting to make sense when I relate what I've been reading to what I've been hearing.

You all probably know all this already but I feel the need to set out what I think??? I've discovered so far. From the various articles and forum discussions that I've seen there seems to be a consensus that up-sampling (as opposed to over-sampling) can often produce a harsh / overly bright sound and that a large part of this is caused by 'jitter' (I don't actually know what jitter is yet by the way) Anyway, this would explain (to me at least) the difference in sound that I noticed between the DAC in my 12 year old Sony player and the sound ffrom the DAC Magic, which I found to be a bit bright on first audition.

I'm also led to believe that you can't just plonk any old DAC on the end of any old transport and expect it all to work well together because of something to do with 'clocks'??? I need to look into this a bit more because there is no point in me having the best DAC in the world if it isn't going to work in harmony with my transport?

Oh well, back to the research ...
Click to expand...

That's never been my experience, ie you can put most transports and dacs together and get perfectly good results.

I think what you've discovered in searching the web for opinion is that audiophiles typically spend too much time obsessing over the minutiae of these things. Stop worrying about clocks and jitter - all but the very worst and most basic (and mostly old) digital systems don't have an audible jitter issue.
Same with up-sampling - there are many good dacs out there using this method that do not sound harsh.

I've said what I think about putting a tube line stage on the end of a cd player or dac before, but essentially this only adds distortion and acts as a filter. It is quite pleasant distortion in small doses but it exists nevertheless. I'm certainly not anti valve but they serve no purpose tacked onto a SS dac other than acting as a subtle tone control.
 
The Sony ES player I heard (was previously Rob's) had a very soft sound. I don't think many DACs sound like that. Perhaps you should look in to something called a NOS DAC. They tend to have a softer sound. The cheaper ones using the Philips TDA1543 chip are a bit messy sounding but the better ones using the TDA1541 chip can sound very good and still retain the more gentle presentation.
 
I have never heard it sound great. It sounds smooth and 'nice' but gets confused with complex stuff. The 1543 was designed for video recorders and TVs. The 1541 was designed for hi-fi.
 
Tenson said:
The Sony ES player I heard (was previously Rob's) had a very soft sound. I don't think many DACs sound like that. Perhaps you should look in to something called a NOS DAC. They tend to have a softer sound. The cheaper ones using the Philips TDA1543 chip are a bit messy sounding but the better ones using the TDA1541 chip can sound very good and still retain the more gentle presentation.
Click to expand...

The top loading 3000ES?

That had user selectable filters and some of those certainly produced quite visible and audible response changes.
 
Tenson said:
I have never heard it sound great. It sounds smooth and 'nice' but gets confused with complex stuff. The 1543 was designed for video recorders and TVs. The 1541 was designed for hi-fi.
Click to expand...

Ah, like vinyl then ;)
 
Dr Martin,
In the Sony/Dacmagic comparison, did you try all the various filter settings of the Dacmagic? I would be interested to know if you thought they made very much difference. (I'm assuming you have the recent Dacmagic, not the old version).
 

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