Advice on CDP and amp choice.

[Emiliano]

I have a Denon F series cdp and amp, part of a mini series of about 12 years vintage, together with Mission 751 standmounts from the same period, which have worked quite well together at lowish volumes.

I listen mainly to classical and baroque, including a lot of opera and choral work, and I'd appreciate advice on a source and amp upgrade which would be suitable for my taste in music.

I can't really afford high end stuff, so I've been thinking along the lines of Marantz, Nad and Rotel in various combinations , although I might be able to stretch to an MF, Arcam or Quad amp with a cheaper cdp.

I've been thinking of keeping hold of the speakers for the time being and later upgrading to floor standers for my 17 ft x 12 ft room in England. I work in the Middle East but probably not for much longer, and when I'm next back in the UK I'll be auditioning some components.

I know people often reccommend warm amps for classical, but I'm not sure what this means - lack of detail perhaps? Obviously I don't want components that lend themselves more to high octane rock, but detail is important to me, and, having listened to my 40 watt amp, would prefer something more muscular. I want. to be able to hear separation of instruments, and I don't want the sound to turn to mush at higher volumes.

I'd welcome the benefit of members' experience, as I'm a complete novice who has never actually heard real hi fi before.

 

[dominicT]

Hi Emiliano what is your budget and do you have some hifi dealers near to you that you could visit? Dominic

 

[Emiliano]

Thanks for the response, Dominic.

Not sure I can give a definite budget, as I have been tempted to overspend on other items in the past.

Let's say at the bottom end of the price scale I'd be looking at the likes of:

cdp - Marantz 7300
Nad 542

amp - Nad 372
Rotel 1070

At the top end things like:

cdp - Arcam 90
Cyrus 8
MF new X-ray
Quad 99

amp - Arcam 90 or end of line 85
MF A3.2
etc.

I wonder if the more expensive components would justify the cost, as, from what I can gather, real hifi units start at well over a grand each.

My home address is in the Manchester area.

 

[Saab]

having listened to my 40 watt amp, would prefer something more muscular. I want. to be able to hear separation of instruments, and I don't want the sound to turn to mush at higher volumes

well more watts wont neccessarily do that unless your lounge is 40ft and you want to deafen the neighbours.Just don't fall for the big watt con,use your ears

in your situation,it would be advisable to go to a dealer when you can give them a definitve budget and audition a range of gear using your own favourite cds from home

 

[GrahamN]

I've got a vague recollection you've asked this before - about a year ago over at HFC maybe? (Handle doesn't ring a bell so maybe under a different one). Can't remember what I replied then - but this is this year's version!

If by "classical and baroque" you mean mostly prior to 1800, then 40W is going to be plenty - particularly if you go for a Class A and/or valve system. And if "opera and choral" means Handel and Mozart, then even the Commendatore dragging Giovanni down to the nether regions is not going to worry it in the slightest, or the massed ranks of the Huddersfield choral society belting out "Hallelujah" or extolling Zadok's virtues will only generate a mild sweat. If it was you though I remember some preference for Puccini maybe? To get the full heart-on-sleeve presentation you may want a bit more welly - and the choral finale to Mahler 8 will require lots!

When I was upgrading from my ancient budget/student system, I found by far the biggest differences were achieved by changing the amp - which does rather fly in the face of conventional wisdom. You won't get everything you want from just that change, but it'll do a lot more than putting a good CDP through a cheap amp. Stuff this source first crap - it doesn't apply any longer (unless you look purely at the cost of components on a high-end system - it does cost a huge amount to improve the front end on a moderately reasonable CDP-based system). I don't know your CDP, but if it was half decent 12 years ago, it'll still probably just about hold its own.

If we can discount that really big stuff at concert volumes, I'd look long and hard at a 50W valve system - e.g. something from World Audio Design (I thought I'd better get in there before Bottleneck does ). I would have really loved either of the two valve amps I heard (OK, I was listening to stuff a bit more expensive, a pair of Audion EL34-based monos came out at about 1k at a discount dealers, and a Trilogy integrated was s/h about £1700) - but unfortunately they would start sparking or shutting down at the climaxes of e.g. the Rosenkavalier Terzett or when the organ got going in the Mahler. (I do like a mid-stalls concert hall presentation though.). I now have a 100/120W Class A solid state amp (I got scared of the possible maintenance costs of a 100+ Watt valve amp).

You should certainly put the WAD kit on your shopping list as it's one of the cheapest valve systems around. Also have a look at that thread running about the Sugden a21a - low power but apparently damned fine (although I've not heard it myself - I have heard the big-brother Masterclass which are rather fine in themselves). If these don't completely wipe the floor with the other kit you've mentioned, I'd...be very surprised (bottling out of making any rash commitments).

I'd also unequivocally advise buying what you want rather than compromise on quality just to get something within budget now - if you want a better CDP, just save up and get that next year. Otherwise you're going to be asking exactly the same question in another year - trying to dump the Arcam/MF/Nad/Rotel

 

[I-S]

For an amplifier, I'd be rather inclined to have a go with the Rotel RA-1062, having owned a related rotel amplifier.

I would avoid matching this with a marantz cd player however, and I'm not a huge fan of the rotel cd players either, so I'd listen to cyrus and arcam players in conjunction with the rotel amp.

I would strongly urge you to also listen to other amps. Advice is fine, but if your ears tell you different, believe them.

 

[PeteH]

Have you thought of going second hand? It's tempting when you realise - as I did - that for similar money you can be looking at a CD92 instead of a new CD73, or an S500 instead of a new C542. You take a bit of a chance buying second hand - particularly CD players - but it can potentially completely change the desirability range you can afford.

 

[Saab]

I have a mint Audi Analogue Puccini SE for sale,ken kessler reckons it should be anyones A21 shopping list...........(i dont agree,but hey,i need to sell it ).£275,4 years old,non remote version

 

[analoguekid]

I also have a mint 51/2 year old Musical fidelity X-Ray cd player (remote, boxed and power lead) looking for around £400 oncluding postage to uk. Fine player bags of detail and great with classical as well as modern.

If you do not want to take the risk of buying seconhand then consider buying dealer exdem equipment, most of it is barely run and you usually get full manufacturers warranty, and usually in good nick and you can sometimes get this stuff for half price.

Try and listen to the stuff at home and at all volumes you like to listen at, go to a specialized dealer, and try to avoid the chains, ask his advice and listen to valve and solid state, standmounts/floorstanders, just stuff that may already be set up, once you have settled on the type of sound you like get him to suggest a couple of systems with that type of sound and within (or usually a smidgen over)your budget

 

[Emiliano]

Many thanks for the replies.

Yes, you're right, Graham. I am the same man.

Haven't posted on HFC for a long time.

Never got round to auditioning things the last time I wrote. Hope to do it this summer.

Will remember your comments about power and not rule out components in the 50 watts area.

I mainly listen to Bach, Handel, Mozart and Beethoven, but I'm also fond of Sibelius and Rachmaninov, and one of my greatest pleasure is to listen to Elgar's Dream of Gerontius. I'm even starting to develop a taste for Wagner.

I've accumulated a large collection of cds over the years, and hope to enjoy some heavy listening during my retirement.