After the 4 way now a big boys 5 way

Discussion in 'DIY Discussion' started by speedy.steve, Apr 19, 2011.

  1. speedy.steve

    speedy.steve

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    After the still to be finished but successful 4 way project -

    It's time to start thinking about proper 5 way...

    I've been in touch with Ben, the builder of these baby's for mid bass.
    http://sites.google.com/site/diyfirefly/100-hz-multi-sided-conical-midbass-horns

    Very nice guy and he's really happy with them and had lots of tips and hints.

    I really lust after the sort of Festool saw and guide he used. I've even looked at there site and absorbed the hard sell commercial! Perhaps... we'll see.

    Nice modelled freq curve but I like 12 sided conicals / that would match better the low and high mid conicals I have and keep her in doors a little happy... "I like the conicals, they look like flowers".
    He also has these interesting tapped subs that would hook up nicely perhaps.

    Or perhaps something similar to this?
    http://www.cowanaudio.com/th.html

    Did the earth move honey? Comes to mind for the Tallboy:)
     
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    speedy.steve, Apr 19, 2011
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  2. speedy.steve

    speedy.steve

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    Some help modelling the mid bass from Mr Coco & we have a plan.

    12 sided 90cm mouth, 20cm throat.

    Cutting out the petals

    [​IMG]

    The above is with a Kappa 15A, 90cm mouth, 100cm long and 20.5cm throat.

    Then I had a good look around for Tapped horn designs - as this is my first, something simple yet that models well.

    Steep learning curve on the Hornresp use. Once I got how to control the input types scaling an original design and inputting my driver choice (already have the Kappa Pro LFII's of course), it all came together.

    Basis of the tapped design courtesty of Volvotreter

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Scaled to my room and driver, it modelled like this:-

    This gives me enough confidence that with these drivers and a bit of woodwork I can build 2 big conicals for the mid bass and one or two tapped for the low bass and get true enough flat down to 25Hz (when that is played).
    I believe I know the crossovers and path to happiness is 5 way (having already found 4 way to be an improvement).

    I will start on the mid bass conicals first and while making those try tuning the tapped model to see if I can possibly get to the magic 20Hz with the space I have available.

    I've sharpen my saws & bought to 2.5L tub of PVA so off we go...
    24mm birch play should be nice and solid:)
     
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    speedy.steve, Apr 20, 2011
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  3. speedy.steve

    speedy.steve

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    Glued up

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Driver chamber in progress

    [​IMG]

    Where the Kappa 15A will live

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
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    speedy.steve, Apr 24, 2011
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  4. speedy.steve

    speedy.steve

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    Back box / bracing

    [​IMG]

    Bit of a whopper!
     
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    speedy.steve, Apr 26, 2011
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  5. speedy.steve

    speedy.steve

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    This evenings progress.
    First prep external and internal.
    Vot a vopper! Kappa 15" and wifes Barbie pink bike in the background give an idea of size.

    [​IMG]

    Thrown together for a quick listen

    [​IMG]
     
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    speedy.steve, Apr 27, 2011
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  6. speedy.steve

    Dev Moderator

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    Awesome.
     
    Dev, Apr 28, 2011
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  7. speedy.steve

    cooky1257

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    That pink bike looks suspiciously like a Raleigh Silhouette circa 1983:)
     
    cooky1257, Apr 28, 2011
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  8. speedy.steve

    speedy.steve

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    Nope - It's a Swedish Rex 3 sp back pedal brake. Original tyres and inner tubes and they still hold air fine with 1 or 2 pump ups a year.
    Circa 1979! They don't make em like that over here.

    They still do something similar
    http://www.rex.se/about/

    I prefer the Cresent video http://www.crescent.se/stadscyklar/hem/

    Reminds me of my many years spent in Sweden chasing blondes and capturing one and bringing her back here with even her bike:)


     
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    speedy.steve, Apr 28, 2011
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  9. speedy.steve

    speedy.steve

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    [​IMG]
     
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    speedy.steve, Apr 28, 2011
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  10. speedy.steve

    felix part-time Horta

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    :D Top effort that man.

    Nice speakers too ;)
     
    felix, Apr 28, 2011
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  11. speedy.steve

    SteveC PrimaLuna is not cheese

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    I live in Norway, I know what you mean :) It must have been difficult tracking a specific one in the crowds, there are so many, or did you just like swipe a net through a shoal ;)
     
    SteveC, Apr 29, 2011
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  12. speedy.steve

    speedy.steve

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    :D I always liked blondes - so go where the supply is good I thought:MILD:
    Kungsträdgården in Stockholm in spring was a beautiful place for blonde spotting.
    Bacchi Wapen, a club (krog in Swedish) on Thursday nights - ladies got in free, that was the place for hunting.

    Any way back to horns...

    A couple of hours in the workshop and...

    Lined double felt thickness.
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    325sq cm throat looks small now!
    [​IMG]

    A Kappa 15A stuck in it's throat

    Chamber mounting.
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    I popped her (something like this has to be a she) on the scales. 45kgs - opps. Next project is to get her into the room and wire up.
     
    speedy.steve, Apr 29, 2011
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  13. speedy.steve

    nando nando

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    awesome steve, play them on the forum,:)
     
    nando, Apr 29, 2011
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  14. speedy.steve

    speedy.steve

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    Wish I could but I can show you what they look like when playing...

    Made a stand today - prob not how it will need to look once the tapped comes along - prob put the upper mid horn up top. Here's what it looks like from the listening chair - some what zoomed in.

    [​IMG]

    Surprising how much better this sounds than they did yesterday just perched on the stool and the upper mid high up. Nice cohesive sound. Can't really tell all until I get the other one in here.
    The Kappa15 mid bass and 2482 horns do sound like they are integrating very well... Measurements will tell though.
    The new Kappa needs some time to play in too of course.

    They will move right a bit to make way for the tapped horn of course.
     
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    speedy.steve, Apr 30, 2011
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  15. speedy.steve

    nando nando

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    speechless i am, what can you say at a master piece, lost for words but a little envy, absolutely wonderful:)
     
    nando, Apr 30, 2011
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  16. speedy.steve

    speedy.steve

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    Thanks.

    I cut out 12 more petals this afternoon, in between playing croquet and sitting in the sun.

    Gluing tonight...
     
    speedy.steve, Apr 30, 2011
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  17. speedy.steve

    speedy.steve

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    2nd mid bass horn was readied yesterday. Just another stand to make this time I will try both upper mid horns on top as that is more compact and I will make the stands like a 3 stage rocket for ease of making, moving and setting up. Pics later on today.
    I do find the listening and balancing / tweaking very rewarding - will all be done temporarily though until some measurements are done and the fact based / listening confirmed tuning is done.

    Expect the first tapped horn in a week or two. Depends how bad it sounds without low bass / when the crossover components arrive and what the GRF cabs integrate like. Guess I will get similar pretty good low bass out of them but not anything like a tapped horn can muster (I hope)...
     
    speedy.steve, May 2, 2011
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  18. speedy.steve

    speedy.steve

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    Here they are together and playing as a 4 way.

    [​IMG]

    The GRFs are not being used as low bass units at the moment as I don't have the crossover parts - tomorrow hopefully.

    Playing now - there is a nice rich detailed mid bass indeed but it sounds a bit gutless and weird without a low end.
    The Tapped horns should fill that space acoustically and will be narrower than the GRFs and so fit the room

    So part of the way there - much more to come yet...
     
    speedy.steve, May 2, 2011
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  19. speedy.steve

    speedy.steve

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    This evenings fun was to try a big mid horn on top.

    Resulted in this.

    [​IMG]

    I also grew tired of the lack of low end and connected the GRF's up - just whacked in parallel with the mid bass horn, I know halving the impedance and god knows what it does to the Zobel designed to correct one Kappa (halves it too I guess) - hmm some deep bass but overall too much bass. A 3dB pad and it was quite nice so that was how I listened for an hour until now.
    Half the big x/o parts are on back order so have to wait but should get the others and Zobel bits for the low LF on Friday... Then at least can play with one side and build a 2.15m+ high tapped horn for a Kappa LF.

    Another couple of weeks or so and I will be into tuning the final set up... Looking forward to that.

    Still think the triangle or cluster of horns gave/will give the sweetest image but hard to tell as it is and I will have to try both arrangements later again once the set up is complete...
     
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    speedy.steve, May 4, 2011
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  20. speedy.steve

    speedy.steve

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    Update.

    Tapped horn is coming along nicely. 4.05m long wave path.

    [​IMG]

    Throat with Kappa Pro LFII

    [​IMG]

    Divider

    [​IMG]

    Driver loading cover

    [​IMG]

    Will be testing it this afternoon / evening all being well - just the Turkish GP about to slow me down.

    OMG - just had a Lancaster bomber fly over nice and low - wow. Got a great view and sound show, luckily I was not in the workshop sawing but the garden having some tea!
    Hmm, that reminds me I have a CD of Race car sounds. The 1.5L V16 BRM is a fav of mine. Must try it on on the horn system. Other good ones are the Porsche 917 at full chat down the Mulsanne straight ala Le Mans film:)

    Here's the BRM

    Play it on your main system and smile: 1951 owned by Nick Mason - lapping at Goodwood. It has to be my fav engine sound of all time. Modern crap just can't compete. The youtube one is a short clip the CD version I have gives you two complete laps and you can hear every throttle blip for down changes and every wheel spin under power.
    Just played it loud on the horn system - OMG that is good! I've got a feeling most of the sound is mid bass and the jbl 2482's and 2435's were working for a living too!
    Wonder what the tapped will add - will find out soon!
     
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    speedy.steve, May 8, 2011
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