APG graphics or on board 128MG graphics?

[auric]

I am toying with the idea of building a new machine built around an Intel Platform XPC or an AMD Platform XPC from Shuttle Group the kit seems just what I want / need / lust after and I can get it from Overclockers UK (Esnet Ltd) Online Catalogue.

Ok so far, my only problem is that some kit has graphics as Geforce4 MX,128 MB VGA share memory or ATI Radeon 9100,128 MB VGA share memory as as against an full size graphics card of my choice (128MB or 256MB). What is a bit puzzling is that some reviewers suggest is that the on board 128MB graphics option is suitable for playing only "entry level" games ???

Can this be right?

Are the ATI Radeon 9100 and Geforce4 MX at 128MB crap?

At the moment I'm only using 32MB shared memory graphics but no games on my existing 256MB AMD machine.

Thinking about things not too long ago 128MB as the main system memory was considered not too shabby and now to be told that 128MB is just ok for games sure has made me think. I know graphics boards have super fast memory, processors and a wide data path but would you kick a ATI Radeon 9100 or a Geforce4 MX out off bed just because it is on the mother board?

What are people's opinions ? I'd love to hear from gamers (hardcore or not), system builders and anyone who can help as I'm not quite sure what to believe.

Auric

 

[penance]

games have gone gfx memory mad in the last few years.
the next gen of games are rumoured to render present gfx cards obselite.
mind you they have been saying that for ages

 

[michaelab]

Sounds like BS to me. My (comparatively ancient) graphics card, an NVIDIA GeForce with 64Mb of DDR memory plays recent games like "Splinter Cell" very well with almost all the graphics options at max. Splinter Cell is incredibly graphics card intensive with loads of shadow and light effects. And my PC is "only" a 933Mhz PIII with 512Mb of RAM

I think a 128Mb card in a decent modern PC would be more than enough for any game.

Michael.

 

[nsherin]

I run an AMD Athlon XP 2000+ with 1GB of DDR RAM and a 128MB ATI Radeon 9200 card. Seems to work pretty well with Flight Simulator 2004 with additional scenery addons. Graphics settings are set to high in most cases and performance is pretty fluid.

 

[auric]

Folks,
I'm thinking along the lines of:
Using the internal graphics (ATI Radeon 9100 or Geforce4 MX at 128MB) thus saving on the heat and power draw (good idea in a shuttle case) and cash from a shit hot, top of the range brand new AGP board. With the cash saved (not spent) I'll put it towards filling the machine with up to 2GB with the fastest of RAM which will be of use to all applications.

Any comments or further ideas?

Auric

 

[themadhippy]

go with the built in card but make sure it has the option to update it at a later date.The speed thing change in the p.c market the all singing all dancing graphic card you buy this week will be so outdated next week that it will olny be cabable of running dos in black and white next week,if you belive the manufacters that is

 

[MO!]

Originally posted by themadhippy
go with the built in card but make sure it has the option to update it at a later date.The speed thing change in the p.c market the all singing all dancing graphic card you buy this week will be so outdated next week that it will olny be cabable of running dos in black and white next week,if you belive the manufacters that is

Sounds like HiFi!!!

As for "go with the built in card but make sure it has the option to update it at a later date", I'm sure I read somewhere that this is something many over look. Some boards which have built in Graphics or sound stuff can't be overrid if a new card is inserted. This may or may not be rare, but best to check!

BTW, auric, what's a "Shuttle case" ?

 

[robert_cyrus]

u just defeat them in the bios, and then add your own agp card. something like a radeon 9600SE should be more than adequate.

shuttle are the de-facto manufacturer of small form factor pc cases. half the size of your standard atx tower. basically a small box, pre-assembled with the motherboard inside. you add the cpu, memory, drives, and then extras like a modem. limitation is there's one pci slot and one agp slot, space for 2 3.5" devices, e.g. one hard drive and one floppy, or 2 hard drives and no floppy, plus one 5" dvd / cdrw. most come with usb2.0, firewire, 5.1 onboard sound, 10/100 lan.
like this:

shuttle next to your bog-standard tower.
http://www.xbitlabs.com/images/mobile/shuttle-sff/xpc-inwin.jpg

 

[auric]

Mo, I think Robert has done a first class job of describing the main attributes of a shuttle system and he describes more or less what I am after. At the moment top of my list is the AMD powered SN41G2 ( Specs & features) but as I work through the specifications my choice may well change.

I think small, quiet with lots of modern connections more or less describes what I am after and as you can see most of their kit matches those criteria so selecting the winner will be a long hard job.

Auric

 

[PeteH]

If you want to play any modern games DO NOT take an onboard graphics solution as they're always hideously underpowered and (secondary concern) use your main system memory. An add-on AGP card AFAIK will always comfortably outperform an on-board solution.

The GeForce4 MX isn't really a GeForce 4 at all - as far as technology is concerned it's a GeForce 2 with better data throughput rates - so if you want anything like decent performance in modern games you need to get a properly-featured card like the GF4 Ti line, and a 64MB GF4 Ti will stamp all over a 128MB GF4 MX or onboard solution performance-wise under pretty much any circumstances.

 

[auric]

Thanks a lot Pete, just the info I am looking for - the sort of things you can't get from comoputing mags.

Auric

 

[auric]

A few notes and links from Tom's Hardware Guide about graphics cards and Integrated VGA , well worth a read if this is something that takes your fancy.

Tom's Hardware Guide Graphics Cards: Graphics Cards Articles In Chronological Overview , Review: Integrated VGA & How Good Is ATi's Radeon 9100 IGP? & Tom's Hardware Guide Graphics Cards: Dual Display Gaming Bigs Up - Introduction. . .hmm. . .just as complicated as choosing your next pre-amp/amp combination.

AUric

 

[PBirkett]

Originally posted by michaelab
Sounds like BS to me. My (comparatively ancient) graphics card, an NVIDIA GeForce with 64Mb of DDR memory plays recent games like "Splinter Cell" very well with almost all the graphics options at max. Splinter Cell is incredibly graphics card intensive with loads of shadow and light effects. And my PC is "only" a 933Mhz PIII with 512Mb of RAM

I think Splinter Cell is probably more forgiving (believe it or not) than a lot of games that are out or due to come out shortly. Try getting a good framerate at a good resolution out of Unreal Tournament 2003 on a complex level on your machine -- my machine, an Athlon XP1800+ with 512Mb RAM and a 128Mb Geforce 4 struggles with it at times. I've seen an Athlon XP2600+ with 1024Mb RAM played it quite well though, with the same card. I agree that in memory terms, the 128Mb is good enough for now, but in future, it will start to struggle a little. Even Worms 3D, one of my fave games at the moment requires a 1.2GHz processor apparently.

Its just the way PC's are. If you buy a cutting edge PC today, it will manage with most games for about 3 years, but it will probably only run games in their maximum resolution/detail levels for about a year.