I think we should ban Mana discussions. They are repetitive and result in carbon copies of the same old discussions/arguments every time. If they wanna argue about it, I propose you let them do it elsewhere. :JPS:
Ban Mana Discussions
- Thread starter PBirkett
- Start date
penance
Arrogant Cock
just dont open the thread then
michaelab
desafinado
It's usually quite entertaining and so far hasn't got into a slanging match - you don't have to read them. However, if bub is going to start posting Mana threads or hijacking other threads to the cause every other day I'll have to do something about it :MILD:
Michael.
Michael.
MO!
MOnkey`ead!
- Joined
- Jun 19, 2003
- Messages
- 4,881
- Reaction score
- 1
I think bub isn't really the problem. Often it's relevent to the thread, but as soon as he mentions what he no doubt thinks is a valid option to the poster, he gets jumped on.
I don't think they should be banned, if you don't want to read them then don't. But the general board is being taken over somewhat.
MO
I think the real problem is that almost anything can end up being a Mana discussion. I remember someone started a thread asking for advice about 600-700 speakers and .......
What I find hard to understand is why can't certain people be more objective? Why do they feel it necessary to tell the world product x y z is the best thing since Tannoy invented speakers (only joking here BTW!) or that certain make is crap. Why can't they accept that everyone has a different taste?
BTW, I'm thinking about changing my signature to "I like MF" or would that kill my street cred (do I have any to lose?
)
What I find hard to understand is why can't certain people be more objective? Why do they feel it necessary to tell the world product x y z is the best thing since Tannoy invented speakers (only joking here BTW!) or that certain make is crap. Why can't they accept that everyone has a different taste?
BTW, I'm thinking about changing my signature to "I like MF" or would that kill my street cred (do I have any to lose?
)
tones
compulsive cantater
Bub is a doctor, a very witty guy and clearly no fool. However, it would appear that, to him, Mana was a life-changing experience, akin to religious conversion. And. like many new religious converts, he is filled with zeal for the gospel and can be completely intolerant of anyone who doesn't see (or, in this case, hear) what he's on about. I have no problem with his enthusiasm (although it did persuade me to try Mana, with the disappointing results and loss of money recorded elsewhere). The belief in the miraculous properties of a few bits of welded angle iron with spikes (computers run faster/better, TV pictures are clearer) seems even odder in the light of his total rejection of other "tweaks" (cables, power cords, etc.). But then, devout converts to fundamentalist Christianity don't see much virtue in fundamentalist Islam, and vice versa.
Having tried it and failed (and having even said so on the Mana Forum and survived!), his tireless evangelisation bothers me not at all. The fact that it didn't work for one person who really tried it means that Mana's reported efficacy is purely a subjective thing and not a law of nature, so let him evangelise I say, and shut it down only when it gets out of hand. And if you don't like what the Mana folk say, simply ignore them - no point in getting into a war of words, which invariably have no winners.
Having tried it and failed (and having even said so on the Mana Forum and survived!), his tireless evangelisation bothers me not at all. The fact that it didn't work for one person who really tried it means that Mana's reported efficacy is purely a subjective thing and not a law of nature, so let him evangelise I say, and shut it down only when it gets out of hand. And if you don't like what the Mana folk say, simply ignore them - no point in getting into a war of words, which invariably have no winners.
Markus S
Trade
As someone who "gets" the Mana effect, I should add that the objectionable part of the Mana wars is not Mana.
We should keep two things separate here: on the one hand, we have what is perceived as preaching about Mana by some. I find this entirely within the limits of acceptable forum behaviour. Certain people have certain strongly held beliefs, for example
-Mana is a good support and makes an excellent value for money upgrade;
- Wadias make excellent CD players, especially when two small modifications are carried out which achieve the same effect as Mana;
- Meadowlark speakers have deep bass of excellent quality;
- Marital Infidelity actually make some quite decent products;
and so on.
On the other hand, some people on this forum just like to fight, and if what they fight over happens to be Mana, then so be it, but Mana is actually quite accidental to it all, the real object of the fight is the fight per se.
Also, some people pick fights, others don't walk away from them. We should note the difference.
And since tones has singled out bub: AFAICT bub is making a real, and laudable, effort to change his style, and posting habits, much as Mick did a while back.
So, my vote: do not ban discussions on Mana. But do moderate posts which appear to have the creation of mischief as their only aim.
We should keep two things separate here: on the one hand, we have what is perceived as preaching about Mana by some. I find this entirely within the limits of acceptable forum behaviour. Certain people have certain strongly held beliefs, for example
-Mana is a good support and makes an excellent value for money upgrade;
- Wadias make excellent CD players, especially when two small modifications are carried out which achieve the same effect as Mana;
- Meadowlark speakers have deep bass of excellent quality;
- Marital Infidelity actually make some quite decent products;
and so on.
On the other hand, some people on this forum just like to fight, and if what they fight over happens to be Mana, then so be it, but Mana is actually quite accidental to it all, the real object of the fight is the fight per se.
Also, some people pick fights, others don't walk away from them. We should note the difference.
And since tones has singled out bub: AFAICT bub is making a real, and laudable, effort to change his style, and posting habits, much as Mick did a while back.
So, my vote: do not ban discussions on Mana. But do moderate posts which appear to have the creation of mischief as their only aim.
The Mana effect here seems more plausible to me than the Mana effect on amplifiers or CDPs.
FWIW...
(I've obviously heard Mana'd hifis, but I've no idea whether it 'works' or not.)
Paul
tones
compulsive cantater
Markus, I only mentioned Bub specifically because he seems to me to be the one who is the most consistent/persistent Mana evangelist, starting with Hi-Fi Choice and them moving on to Groovehandle and ZeroGain. I agree that he has mellowed considerably - when he first appeared, he was incredibly abrasive towards anyone who dared question the efficacy of Mana. I think he still thinks we non-believers are all at least one of deaf, cretinous or totally incompetent, but at least he no longer comes out and says it in so many words!
MO!
MOnkey`ead!
- Joined
- Jun 19, 2003
- Messages
- 4,881
- Reaction score
- 1
The MOre recent pattern seems to be that someone will ask something, then someone might reccomend mana. Nothing wrong there, it's a bit of kit they're happy with, and it's reccomendation is as valid as any. Then, come a few remarks back, MOre often than not joking ones like "here we go again....", or full on "why do you have to preach about this cr@p". from which the snow ball picks up pace and size! Then the occasional head pops in posts there little bit to stir it up, then dissapears again.
I don't think mana should be banned from being mentioned, but having it turn into *war* should be! They can be fun for like the first few posts, but then they just go off on the same route.
I've tried asking for serious stand advice before and put a note at the start saying keep it sensible or leave, didn't work. I've seen it happen many times with others too! If people ask about stands and such, MOre often than not, they'll want to hear ALL possibilities.
I don't think mana should be banned from being mentioned, but having it turn into *war* should be! They can be fun for like the first few posts, but then they just go off on the same route.
I've tried asking for serious stand advice before and put a note at the start saying keep it sensible or leave, didn't work. I've seen it happen many times with others too! If people ask about stands and such, MOre often than not, they'll want to hear ALL possibilities.
The Devil
IHTFP
Awwww! Thank you for the kind words to those who wrote them, and b*ll*cks to the rest of you! Only joking. The internet throws up all sorts of misunderstandings and I've worked hard to moderate my style. Yes, Mana seems to work for me, and yes I do find it hard to understand when it doesn't work for others. I also get a little exercised when I see the Mana effect characterised as 'bleeding edge' etc etc. It's nothing of the sort, and I think that misrepresentations of that kind are to be discouraged.
There are a lot of myths about hi-fi which catch on very easily: the bass hump and general crapness of the LP12, Naim amps & CDPs sounding harsh tiring and generally unlistenable, proac speakers being any good... you get the picture.
In any event, I know nothing much about hi-fi outside of kit I've owned, and I have nothing of much value to contribute.
Events have moved on in the real world, a few untruths have been outed, and I've returned to the dark quiet place from whence I came.
I've enjoyed Zerogain and will continue to lurk/maybe post occasionally. Most of you seem like very decent people indeed. My advice to anyone who doesn't like a thread topic would be to avoid clicking on it, and if you can't do that, please don't just post something like
"wankers! :MILD: "
as all that does is lower the tone. There are a lot of threads here and elsewhere which I don't bother opening because I know they'll have nothing in them for me.
The main point of these forums is to meet nice people, and I've done that.
There are a lot of myths about hi-fi which catch on very easily: the bass hump and general crapness of the LP12, Naim amps & CDPs sounding harsh tiring and generally unlistenable, proac speakers being any good...
you get the picture.In any event, I know nothing much about hi-fi outside of kit I've owned, and I have nothing of much value to contribute.
Events have moved on in the real world, a few untruths have been outed, and I've returned to the dark quiet place from whence I came.
I've enjoyed Zerogain and will continue to lurk/maybe post occasionally. Most of you seem like very decent people indeed. My advice to anyone who doesn't like a thread topic would be to avoid clicking on it, and if you can't do that, please don't just post something like
"wankers!
:MILD: "as all that does is lower the tone. There are a lot of threads here and elsewhere which I don't bother opening because I know they'll have nothing in them for me.
The main point of these forums is to meet nice people, and I've done that.
The Devil
IHTFP
Arf!
wadia-miester
Mighty Rearranger
Humm, as long as the usual preachers don't drone on about angle iron then fine, stab vests not with standing or worrying about having to supplement £4K speakers with £4K+ subs just to add what should be there in the first place, Then carry on angle ironing 
Last edited by a moderator:
MO!
MOnkey`ead!
- Joined
- Jun 19, 2003
- Messages
- 4,881
- Reaction score
- 1
Originally posted by wadia-miester
Humm, as long as the usual preachers don't drone on about angle iron then fine, stab vests not with standing or worrying about having to supplement £4K speakers with £4K just to add what should be there, Then carry on angle ironing
And perhaps if trolls didn't turn legitimate threads into *war*
Hi Tones,
I'd just like to point out that not all Mana users reject the notion of cables and mains upgrades making a difference! :MILD:
I think it's important to remember that one can only judge matters on ones relevant experience. Unfortunately, your experience of Mana wasn't a satisfactory one (and there could have been a number of reasons for this) so your opinion of Mana will simply reflect your experience.
On the contrary, in my experience, Mana [especially when you get to the higher levels - and I'm at Phase 9 now with my equipment] completely and utterly outperforms any other equipment support I've tried - and I've had a few! Therefore, my opinion of Mana (based on my experience) will be very high indeed. I think it's only natural to wax lyrical about something that has totally transformed your system and allowed you to enjoy your tunes like never before - after all, people do this all the time with cables and power cords
What you do have to guard against, however, is coming across like a zealot. I hope I've managed to avoid doing that, even though I'm sure that on occasions my enthusiasm for Mana gets the better of me!
Have fun with your hi-fi and enjoy the music; that's the bottom line
Marco.
tones
compulsive cantater
Absolutely right, Marco, and I've never said otherwise. It is fact that, with my combination of equipment and ears, Mana does not work at all. And since it doesn't work at Level One, there is no point in proceeding further. I would like to have heard the almost miraculous results described by Bub, but I didn't, so I shall no longer flog a dead horse and spend my money on (to me) more useful things - such as more CDs to clutter up the house. And to me my stuff sounds jes' fine. I'm sure it can be bettered, but I'm sure the price for doing so would be 'way beyond what I'd be willing or able to pay.
In addition, I have no problem with people hearing differences in cables, power cords, etc., just as long as they don't insist that I have to hear them, otherwise there's something seriously wrong with me. Now, of course, there might well be, but I can't do anything about that!
I don't mind zealots, just so long as they're not totally one-eyed, intolerant zealots.
Given the opportunity, I'd like to let you hear the miraculous results chez-moi, and perhaps dilute the memory of your previous experience with Mana :MILD:
Btw, did you get to hear Satan's system?
What if the zealot is also a dogmatist?
Marco.
tones
compulsive cantater
Originally posted by Marco
Given the opportunity, I'd like to let you hear the miraculous results chez-moi, and perhaps dilute the memory of your previous experience with Mana :MILD:
Btw, did you get to hear Satan's system?
What if the zealot is also a dogmatist?
Marco.
Can't figure out how this quote system works, but, in order.
1. I'd like to hear it, but would you be prepared to disturb your system to let me hear a "before and after" version? Don't worry, I wouldn't ask it of you!
I've never heard James's system, but I'd like to. I'm sure both his and yours sound great (I'm a very uncritical listener, I think that's my problem, I just enjoy music).
2. If the zealot is a dogmatist, s/he gets totally ignored as being not worth listening to.
