Bass or everything else? BIG LEAGUE dilemna

domfjbrown

domfjbrown

live & breathe psy-trance
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I've done a temporary swap with a colleague; he has my Epos ES14s, and I have his Dynaudio Audience 52s...

I'm in a quandry, as the 52s do EVERYTHING better (in the context of my room/system) than the Epos'; I think I can understand what "tonal colour" (as opposed to colouration) means now. The only thing they don't seem to do so well is bass...

On certain music, some of the lower octaves are a bit all over the place; it's not boomy or overbright, just odd. I think a LOT of it is room related, as they sounded ace in my colleague's own system. Ilockyer (housemate) reckons the bass is more like how real bass should be, and certainly, they sound very live and peppy.

So - would you go for dull and matter of fact with good bass, or slightly strange bass with everything else being better??? Since I play bass guitar (badly) this is a REAL problem, as these are not bad little squawkboxes, with that one caveat...

Opinions please :)

OH - PS - the Dyns are on fairly meaty Sound Organisation stands; would the Dynaudio stands be better, as my colleague has those but will sell seperately. Personally, I don't reckon there'd be much in it, but I've been fooled before :)
 
My old headphones (Philips HP890) had really good bass, but the vocals sounded flat, and it wasn't that natural, my new headphones Beyer DTX900s sound much more natural but don't have quite as strong bass.

I personaly prefer my new headphones becuase you can listen to music for much longer. Bass is nice but I would never sacrifice the quality of the rest of the system for it.
 
amazingtrade said:
I personaly prefer my new headphones becuase you can listen to music for much longer.
Click to expand...

This is the difference I have with the Dyns - I'm now back to WANTING to play album after album, but, as I say, the bass is "odd" in that some notes are more obvious than others - hard to explain really. At least I've nulled out the farty port problem finally :) Methinks it's the crap floor in that room, letting the side down...
 
Dom whats the rest of your system and how big is the room, where are the speakers placed etc.
The Dyns bass can go a bit doolalay if close to rear and side walls in the lower bass region due to the rear port.
Try bunging the ports to see how much chaffing you are getting from the rear port.
In rgds to stands i would hang on and try and get some Target/Sonus R1 stands these work well with the Dyns.
How heavy are the stands you have? are they mass filled?

Curtis
 
Do what I used to before I had some speakers wot do decent bass - take your amp's tape out, get a dual phono to stereo 1/4" adapter and plug into your bass amp having turned all the treble controls down and bottom end bass up...
Then the world's yer lobster!
 
Tape out is at line level, but there's a volume control on't bass amp to give hours of happy bass boosting/cutting!
Used to work beautifully with a pair of Richard Allen RA1s on the end of a Leak stereo 30.
 
was thinking that, leonard, just means he has to turn both volumes at once, if he had another set of preouts, could they not be used and then only need for one volume control, don't forget we are living in a convinience world now, "what no remote control" :)
 
If you don't mind me saying it, I find the query a little odd.
It's like saying "I've walked into a bar, and I'm not sure which of the two fat birds at the bar I should try chatting up".
The easy answer is that you leave the bar and find another bar with some fit birds in it.

In the case of your speaker query, go listen to some other speakers until you find some that do everything you want.
 
analoguekid said:
was thinking that, leonard, just means he has to turn both volumes at once, if he had another set of preouts, could they not be used and then only need for one volume control, don't forget we are living in a convinience world now, "what no remote control" :)
Click to expand...
Aye, not particularly convenient...
2nd set of pre outs would make it less hassle..
With my bass amp I had gain and volume, plus an effects unit with another gain and volume.. I used to leave the (rackmount) effects set to "Dub bass" preset, which didn't half give a +6dB bass hump in my room at 25Hz!
And bizzarely I never got a complaint from the neighbours despite living in an upstairs flat in London.
Mebbe they thought it was the nearby Jubilee line :JPS:
 
just out of interest, I had the 72s for a brief spell in my room and had serioius bass probs with them, port chuff and all that, that's pretty basic, I woudl've thought dyn. could get that right
perhaps they have exageratted bass to impress?
 
I concur with Mr_Sukebe, listen to others until you find the perfect ones for you. Or get the Dyns then get some room treatment or a DEQ later on to fix the problem if you think you can live with it until then.
 
shame about the ES-14's though... ive found other members of the ES range (12, 22, 30) to be remarkably uncoloured and quite excellent speakrers.

had the chance to demo my old ES22's up against some JM labs speakers last night... needless to say the JM labs are being replaced by the 22's now ;-)
 
Theres nothing wrong with Dynaudio speakers.
The problem is they need a lot of space which isn't always possible in UK homes and also they need high powered SS Amps to grip those drivers.
You may be better off with the front ported 62's or also the 1.1's are a lot better than the 52's.
As said it may be worth looking at other alternatives.

Curtis
 
Mr_Sukebe said:
It's like saying "I've walked into a bar, and I'm not sure which of the two fat birds at the bar I should try chatting up".
The easy answer is that you leave the bar and find another bar with some fit birds in it.

In the case of your speaker query, go listen to some other speakers until you find some that do everything you want.
Click to expand...

My last bird was a fat one (jeez, can't believe I admitted that!). Fit ones only want me as a mate, so I can't be arsed full stop! ;) ...besides, fat birds are always keen to impress, and beauty's only a lightswitch away. Oh - and wasn't it Freddie who said "fat bottomed girls make the rockin' world go round!"? (btw, I don't think he was talking about 13.5 stone/5 feet tall ones - when I'm 6ft3 and 11s8 - well, it's a logistical impossibility. In fact, the whole experience almost turned me gay!!! (well, not quite THAT bad, but you get the picture. She had nice eyes though...)

Back on topic; the Dyns/Epos are a swap (as yet, no money's changed hands). The Epos' are excellent, but my sources aren't really up to the job (well, they are and they aren't, if you get my drift). The room is about 5 metres square. The Epos' do proper bass even with only 8 inches behind them (not enough space to bring them further out), and I expect a piddly 6.5 incher with teeny port to work better than the Epos' in this respect - and the Dyns don't.

In fact, last night, the Dyns sounded like a bag of arse (almost as bad as the 42s/NAIT5/CD5 I heard in Audio-Excellence - good groove, but primeval soup for bass - and that was with 2 FEET behind them!!!). So one more day before I swap back/pay some money to keep them. The room's a bass sapper - most of it leaks out the floor. The mids/uppers on the Dyns are much more lively than the Epos', but I'm not sure now after living with them for a week that this is the best thing.

BTW - amps are Naim 72/180 - the Epos' were designed around a 250 which is a 180+regulated PSU-preamp PSU (I don't believe the hype that the 250's THAT much more of a beast to be honest).

If I go back to the Epos', I might well try some Monitor Audio Bronze 2s - I stumbled across a pair on the back of some Rotel stuff in Sevenoaks (when picking up the second-hand 180, funnily enough) and, while not as refined as the Epos', they seemed a WHOLE lot of fun (and, incidentally, are the same in cash as the deal for the Dyns would cost, since my Epos' are cosmetically shite due to a post-party screw up involving my (sober) mate, a space hopper, and a 3 feet fall-from-stand-onto-radiator. Grrr. Thank GOD for their box-within-box construction!!!

Anyone good with a sander/french polish??? ;)

...oh, incidentally, I tried bunging the ports with socks (no foam bungs available) and they sounded crap - NO bass and really flat. Horrid. Maybe I should have used TP for their bungholes???
 
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Dom to be fair those dyns are just not going to work in that room.
Meter minimum from rear and side walls and often thats still not enough.
Look for some speakers that arent fussy about placement and that actually prefer a rear wall to reinforce the bass.
Dyns normally work quite well with Naim electronics so it can only be the room although they could do with a bit more juice.
I wasn't particularly impressed with the 52's bass end a little unrulely at the best of times.
The 62's punch a bit faster.
Best of Luck

Curtis
 
So 90 watts at 10 amps into 4 ohms isn't enough? Bloody heck, they're only 6.5 inch drivers, and I thought the Epos' were power hungry!!! With 8 inch drive units and large cabs, with only ~86 dB efficiency, that's fair...

...besides, I spent almost a grand upping the amps last summer to make the Epos' work better, so if I need more watts, I give up!

What I can't understand is that the Epos' don't complain as much as the Dyns in this scenario (I know they need to be further into the room too!)... Rear wall is actually a bay window - the only other walls are chimney breast with shite 70s built in low level shelves (for TV, etc), or 2 crappy cardboard walls. So not ideal at all. The bay has 2 solid brick uprighters in the "corners" which the Epos' and Dyns' rear ports both face; Naim speakers or Rega Kytes won't work here; also, they'd be slap bang either side of a hulkin' great radiator :(

Oh - edit - I've tried Rega Kytes in the room - very little bass, but damn, they're good. This was with the NAIT3 - maybe I should wheel them down again later today when my mate's over, and try them hard up against that rear wall???
 
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Dyns are a mare to place which is a shame.
I know mate ive had Dyns for 7 years now so i know what a bastard they are and how bad they can sound if not given the room to breath.
However when you have the right invironment they are outstanding.
As i said before though the bass on the 52's is a bit muddy.
Have you tried some sealed box designs like ATC SCM7?
 
Yo Dom

What you got them stood on? Did they come with stands, are you using the old speaker stands, do you have any slabs underneeth, tried anything like that? You've got suspended floor there ya?

Ya you don't have a lot of room to play with there.

Sounds very similar to my DAC dilemna, but I'll save that for another day.
 

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