best classical speaker /amp combination

[alanbeeb]

For classical music I find Tannoy one of my last choise unless one day I start to change my priorities concerning the sound characteristics and want to start hearing classical music with a sound that has no association with what you hear in concert halls.

About the budget of 1K I would advise your friend to wait a while and save more money. Long term this will be the cheapest solution.

You don't have to recreate the sound you hear in concert halls in order to have a thoroughly satisfying listening experience.

Trying to do so will be extremely expensive, and will simply be an unobtainable dream for most people in the real world.

 

[stereotype]

You don't have to recreate the sound you hear in concert halls in order to have a thoroughly satisfying listening experience.

Euphony can beguile, it is true, though not, usually, for long. Musicians, at least, feel differently, or rather they think that one has to make the effort towards high fidelity. And for music on a smaller scale, or even on a medium scale, one can get very close to it, so that the ears and brain cannot tell whether a performance is live or not- and without enormous cost, too. The effort is in know-how rather than money, and is worth it, because music, particularly classical music, is an art form, and deals with emotions, even the metaphysical, rather than sonic impressiveness. Hi-fi owners can very easily mislead themselves into forgetting that.

 

[sandgrownun]

Alternatives not mentioned here, but that I have found satisfactory:

B&W CDM1SEs plus woofer plus decent, modest SS amp for the lower budget;
ATC50A's

 

[bottleneck]

This has now been 'plumped for', and something has been bought.

A quandry now exists on Tonearms.

Any thoughts on

Rega rb250
Rega 700
Hadcock
Sme 3009.

I have given my opinion, but a wider spread of opinions is good.

Cheers..

 

[alanbeeb]

What was plumped for in amp/speakers dept?

 

[bottleneck]

I think Neat and Quad. They were going for good prices, so a punt was taken. I think WAF had a factor.

Not entirely sure what amp.

 

[titian]

You don't have to recreate the sound you hear in concert halls in order to have a thoroughly satisfying listening experience.

Well you can certainly talk for yourself and for some other people.
They are though persons who have other exigences maybe because they sometimes hear music in an other way.

 

[silverback]

The first thing to know is how exigent he is. A classical listener can have a scale of exigences which goes much behond any other kind of listener.

I dont understand the above....what is a scale of exigencies please?

My answer to the above is that you can't on that budget. I have only occasionally heard systems that sort out the complexities of complex classical occasionally, and they have cost in excess of £15000. You can ENJOY classical music for £100, but to hear it as it was intended? For what it's worth, the best system I heard recently doing this contained a push/pull valve amp (Puresound), large efficient loudspeakers (Horning) and a simple CD front end (consonance)

 

[sammyo]

Deleted out of reconsidered politeness

 

[stereotype]

The first thing to know is how exigent he is. A classical listener can have a scale of exigences which goes much behond any other kind of listener.

I dont understand the above....what is a scale of exigencies please?

My answer to the above is that you can't on that budget. I have only occasionally heard systems that sort out the complexities of complex classical occasionally, and they have cost in excess of £15000. You can ENJOY classical music for £100, but to hear it as it was intended? For what it's worth, the best system I heard recently doing this contained a push/pull valve amp (Puresound), large efficient loudspeakers (Horning) and a simple CD front end (consonance)

To fully replicate a concert hall experience in which a full orchestra is playing is a big ask, but I think that one can get close to this, when detail is closely replicated, and only the loudest tuttis are left lacking, for much less than £15000. Certainly chamber music reproduction does not need anything like this level of expenditure. And there are ways round this problem, anyway, because modification of equipment can transform performance from competence to excellence. Headphone only systems can certainly sort out complexity and give great dynamic range for a few grand, or even less, if one modifies used equipment.

Hi-fi used to have a credibility problem, because professional musicians would not accept its limitations. The industry took this to heart (or wallet), and today, musicians will listen to and own hi-fi because, with good selection of hardware, they can get enough fidelity to give them satisfaction. Much of the industry still provides euphony, that sells well, but with judicious selection a highly musical experience can be obtained at reasonable cost.

 

[titian]

The first thing to know is how exigent he is. A classical listener can have a scale of exigences which goes much behond any other kind of listener.

I dont understand the above....what is a scale of exigencies please?

There are listeners who actually are mostly interested in the rythm and that the sound is nice for their ears and makes them feel emotional.
Other for example are sometimes interested in perceiving the the interpretation. This means also to hear all the nuances and different coloring in the sound that the interpreter is playing. Well if a system cannot reproduce these nuances then that listener will not have thoroughly satisfying listening experience.
Another example could be hearing Mahler, Shostakovich, Bruckner. If for a listener the dynamics and power are very important for hearing this kind of music and the system won't be able to deliver these sound characteristics then he will not have thoroughly satisfying listening experience. The scale of exigences is not only his priorities to the different sound characteristics but also how precise he wants / needs each of them.

My answer to the above is that you can't on that budget.

I agree, that's why I wrote in post 14: "For both budgets he would need to do some compromises".
Normally a classical listener has as reference something like a natural sound. Have you ever heard someone who listens to classical music and wants the violins to sound like a distorted trumpet, the flute like a tin and so on? Well maybe those who never went to a live event without speakers.
Anyway from what I heard from other classical listeners, their priority is that it should sounds "natural" and that's why I wrote "I find xxxxx one of my last choise unless one day I start to change my priorities concerning the sound characteristics and want to start hearing classical music with a sound that has no association with what you hear in concert halls."
This doesn't mean that it must "fully replicate a concert hall experience"! Also a discussion if Hifi system can reproduce a concert hall sound is IMO OT for this thread.

Cheers

 

[8deabrilde1954]

Big Music, Big Room, short budget

Hi,
I'm new to zero gain but I've faced a similar problem a few years ago.

I went for 2nd hand 4 ohm resistive floorstanders and a high current solid state second hand Japanese pre/power solution.

Ten years ago my budget was of roughly 1500,00£ and I would say that if you can strtch yours up to 2500,00 you might just find what you need.

Now that the new KEF 207/2 are selling better, you might find a good pair of 107/2 for someting like 1500,00£. Look for second hand gear in the dealer's adverts of Hi-Fi World.

For an amplifier try the likes of Rotel RHA 10 or an Onkyo integrated. Onkyos, 15 years ago were reliable and cheaper amps a little on the bright side. Look for something that produces more than 150watts/channel.

A pair of KEFs 107/2 would take care of that onkyo's signature with no fuss at all (they usualy come with a basic and apparently suspicious equalizer called the cube which could be of great assistance in such a big room).

Hope you're lucky. Regards MKT

 

[8deabrilde1954]

Big Music, Big Room, short budget

Hi,
I'm new to zero gain but, as I've faced a similar problem 12 years ago, here goes my suggestion.

I went for 2nd hand 4 ohm resistive floorstanders and a high current solid state second hand Japanese pre/power solution and ended up stretching my budget some 800 pounds more.

Ten years ago my budget was of roughly 1100,00£. I would say that if you manage to stretch yours up to 2700,00£ you might just find what you need.

At the time I bought a pair of KEFs 107/2, a pair of Rotel Michi stereo amps and the corresponding preamp, as I inherited a Garrad 401 and an almost unused FM acoustics phono preamp the end result is a dream system with which I have lived happily with since that moment.

The only additions I made to the system have been a VTL 5.5. preamp, with astounding results (I still keep the passive Rotel, which is very good, anyway)and a Dynavector 17D2, in 2004.

More recently, towards the end of 2008, I also replaced my combination of cd transport and dac (Audiolab 8000cdm and a dpa dac) with a Primaluna Prologue 8 cd player.

What I'm intending to do now is the introduction of good power cables, better speaker cables and better interconnects .

Now that the new KEF 207/2 are selling better, you might find a good pair of 107/2 for someting like 1500,00£. Look for second hand gear in the dealer's adverts of Hi-Fi World. Forget ebay in what speakers are concerned.

For an amplifier try the likes of Rotel RHA 10 or an Onkyo integrated. Onkyos, 15 years ago, were reliable and cheaper amps though a little on the bright side. Look for something that produces more than 150watts/channel. If you find a Rotel you'll have to look for one of their powerful integrated machines from the nineties. Otherwise your budget, even stretched won't cover your needs.
A pair of KEFs 107/2 would take care of that onkyo's signature with no fuss at all (they usualy come with a basic and apparently suspicious equalizer called the cube which could be of great assistance in such a big room).

The message I want to convey is that if you refrain to rush and choose carefully the items you need you'll build a system almost for life.

Hope you're lucky. Regards MKT

 

[sammyo]

Thanks MKT, that is an incredibly helpful post.

 

[sammyo]

LOL. I've just seen what KEF 107/2 look like. The rest of the post is still helpful though.