Buy from a Dealer or buy Direct?

I think when criticising a dealer model (lets say for now the NAIM and LINN model), we have to acknowledge that there are thousands of satisfied customers of these dealerships who are delighted with the service they receive and wish it to continue.

They would no doubt say that they are not brainwashed, but instead selective consumers who have chosen this route to market and are happy with it.

Britain has a delightful diversified audio route to market, which as any economist will tell you is what happens in a saturated market.
 
bottleneck said:
I think when criticising a dealer model (lets say for now the NAIM and LINN model), we have to acknowledge that there are thousands of satisfied customers of these dealerships who are delighted with the service they receive and wish it to continue.

They would no doubt say that they are not brainwashed, but instead selective consumers who have chosen this route to market and are happy with it.

Britain has a delightful diversified audio route to market, which as any economist will tell you is what happens in a saturated market.
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And that's as good a post on the subject as I have ever read!
 
bottleneck said:
I think when criticising a dealer model (lets say for now the NAIM and LINN model), we have to acknowledge that there are thousands of satisfied customers of these dealerships who are delighted with the service they receive and wish it to continue.

They would no doubt say that they are not brainwashed, but instead selective consumers who have chosen this route to market and are happy with it.

Britain has a delightful diversified audio route to market, which as any economist will tell you is what happens in a saturated market.
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That is not the point, up to 5 years ago that was the only choice, and in reality it is only now that you are seeing more product and manufacturers going, or willing to go, direct. In the past some have just done it sneakily as Nando says. It is a new way to market for major items not just cables and accessories and DIY, you are talking to and about people who used the old way to market and they didn't have a choice.

It is the second hand market that has led the way in this and will continue to do so, and Linn and Naim even if they both went bust would still be a big part of the market because of all the second hand product out there. I would say with all confidence that far more second hand (so called) high end gear is sold now than new, and just about all of it is on-line.
 
its also very embarrassing to admit otherwise after you have parted with a load of your cash. Rob's point about product placement is very accurate.
 
i hink we all have a bias towards what we love and have, it is up to the individual to choose what they wish, i am bias to what i use and love the sound i am recieving, i agree to a certain stent on what richard says about the high street market gone to pot "not all" my last job untill i saw the end was coming was in the year 2000 when i was based in covent garden, i left to try a different venture in retail but after 2 years i decided i had enough, so took a year of the industry, bored at home started doing end of line prducts on ebay,very nice it was, untill 5 years ago i decided to deal from home, what made me see that high street was dying "no offence" was as younger salesmen came on the scene they were not bothered about the client, just themselfs.
nando.
 
P.S. the seccret of my succes is that i only trade with manufacturers on PRO-FORMA , no 30 days crap, at thend of the month i know i don't owe and what is there is mine,
nando.
 
Hi Richard, I do not believe that Naim and Linn dealerships were the only source.

I have not been interested in audio for as long as you, perhaps only 15 years.

The first five of those years were in the hay-day of LINN and NAIM franchises.

I was (as we all were once) a consumer learning about hifi, from the ground up. It wasn't even really a hobby back then.

At my young age, I visited the hifi shops of the north east of England. They were a Naim stockist - but also sold (from memory) Tannoy, Ruark, Audio Innovations, Epos and many other makes.

I bought my first ever hifi system there - all ex demo. It was a mixture of non-flat earth products (apart from theEpos ES11). The epos Es11's didn't work in my room so I replaced them with some Tannoy sixes. At no time was I under any pressure to buy Linn or Naim based systems.

On a rare trip to London - again at LINN's and NAIM's forefront years - I went into two London stores. They both had racks of Naim boxes. I had a great demo with some Linn Keilighs and non-flat earth amplification driving them, and a gyrodec as the source. I bought the gyrodec.

What I'm saying is that in my early years I was visiting LINN and NAIM dealerships, and under no ''foot tapping pressure'' to buy Linn or Naim products... not ever.

In fact, the first time I heard about these sales techniques was on PFM about 5 or so years ago.

I think the reality of consumer experience in my case (I can't speak for others, I'm only a single person) - was different to your experience as a non-flat earth manufacturer.

Incidentally, I was in an 'Audio T' only yesterday. It was as much full of brands like Electrocompaniet as it was Naim. A right old mix. If there were any products missed out, it would be valve amplification.

Valves are still something rarely seen in flat earth shops.

In the last 10 years of course, I've fallen head over heels for valve amps and sensitive speakers. It will always be ''my thing'' now I think. I've been sensitive to it, and despite the apparent ''antithesis'' of the high sensitivity/valve approach to the flat-earth stores, they have never criticised this type of equipment to me.

Generally I've found dealers very good.

A few are truly exceptional, as I've put in another thread.

It would be a sad day if I didn't have ''noteworthy audio'' or ''definitive audio'' to pop into - or no doubt ''walrus'' if I lived in London.

I do think that perhaps these specialist stores may need to change the way they operate to survive, but I hope the great people and wonderful customer service I've experienced continues.
 
Fine so you like paying an extra 40 or 50%, I think now it is possible to avoid it you will be in a minority.
 
I personally like to get my feet wet and make things myself.
I buy second hand a lot too.

I avoid new whenever possible, unless it's a kit. Residuals mean re-sale values aren't as high as with kits or used equipment in particular.

I find this a great 'cost free' way of trying hifi.

I'm not the hifi buying public though. I'm a true hobbyist now, and therefore have stepped away from the dealer (and online) buying market.

Everyone is at different stages of hifi.

My point was simply that ''Linn and Naim dealers'' in my experience are not 2 brand exclusive shops.. at least not in my experience of them, which admitedly is not comprehensive.
 
If manufacturers have a policy to sell via dealers there is no option to buy direct. If their products are ones the public wants to buy then they will buy via dealers.
 
They probably go through dealers as each dealer has to buy a few bits from the range and then when that range is old news a few bits from the new range and also alot of these companies have been trading for years and have built up a rapour with their dealers and its just become common practice for them.

Where as some and the newer manufacturers are looking at the bigger picture, a reccession for one and the high use of internet shopping so are lowering the prices that the dealers can offer as it then is direct sales.
 
One thing that occurs to me is that the direct method looses the human contact element of buying. I think that should not be underestimated. An Internet site, while it can give good service, can't give the smile and warmth of character a person can.
 
I disagree Richard. The purchase of complex, electronic products in the case of hifi often require after sales service and I'd much rather deal with a human being in person than some entity on the other end of my email.

From past experience, I've had issues that required a visit from not only a dealer but the manufacturer. The company I supported with my purchases cheerfully hopped on a plane and flew cross country. I doubt that would happen with an ePurchase and your recommended margins.

regards,

dave
 
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blackdog said:
I disagree Richard. The purchase of complex, electronic products in the case of hifi often require after sales service and I'd much rather deal with a human being in person than some entity on the other end of my email.

From past experience, I've had issues that required a visit from not only a dealer but the manufacturer. The company I supported with my purchases cheerfully hopped on a plane and flew cross country. I doubt that would happen with an ePurchase and your recommended margins.

regards,

dave
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This again is silly, a shop is a shop, it is one address unless it is a chain like Sevenoaks. I am one address the same, people can come here if they want, they can phone, they get the same service, it is just the price is about 50% cheaper and I don't sell other manufacturers product.

I have never known a UK dealer to hop on a plane to visit a customer :D you are not UK your situation is different yet you want to join in a discussion about the UK market. The model and way to market may be different for the USA, that is a different subject.
 
blackdog said:
I disagree Richard. The purchase of complex, electronic products in the case of hifi often require after sales service and I'd much rather deal with a human being in person than some entity on the other end of my email.

From past experience, I've had issues that required a visit from not only a dealer but the manufacturer. The company I supported with my purchases cheerfully hopped on a plane and flew cross country. I doubt that would happen with an ePurchase and your recommended margins.

regards,

dave
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Indeed that happens here as well. I know the SO travel far and wide to setup equipment and Peter at Cymbiosis often gets on a plane!
 
I can only assume this relates to the amount of money you spend. I've never ever had a home demo let alone after sales support & I live 8 miles from my one & only dealer.
If you are starting up & promoting your product then its a nice thing to do to get the product reputation & word of mouth rolling, but unless you factor in these costs you are heading for disaster.

So high costs equates with better after sales? What's the budget you are talking about here?
 
UK Duty Paid said:
I can only assume this relates to the amount of money you spend. I've never ever had a home demo let alone after sales support & I live 8 miles from my one & only dealer.
If you are starting up & promoting your product then its a nice thing to do to get the product reputation & word of mouth rolling, but unless you factor in these costs you are heading for disaster.

So high costs equates with better after sales? What's the budget you are talking about here?
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I have had a 2 hour demo for a £200 amp in '90. When I bought the LP12 (£400 in '86) the offer was there for a home setup. Many dealers see the bigger picture, repeat business and word of mouth are very good ways to earn money.

I dont' think the budget needs to be high to get good service. Obviously you're going to struggle to get many dealers to spend hours on a £20 cable demo but thats what e-sales are for, not hi fi.
 
I think these are fair points and if a dealer was to contribute some of thier profits towards travel costs and this type of customer care it would make for a better rep and customer appreciation of that dealer and would urge people to want to spend more with them for the quality of the one on one time that could be offered. Some people simply feel more confortable in this scenario especially when it concerns larger amounts of cash!

@Richard I also think that the service u say u offer is excellent too and being a manufacturer doesnt in my experience usaually mean the doors are open, nice one!
 
There is one part of the business that at the moment does not suit direct to market and that is far distance selling, for example from the UK to Far East, Australasia, The Americas. Service is a problem and shipping damage on individual items is a problem. My model so far has only worked for the EU, even Norway is PITA because it is outside the EU. At the moment not counting cables and only looking at amps and speakers about 50% is UK about 20% is Italy and about 20% the rest of Europe and less than 10% other markets.

So I think the model for these distance markets is to get a distributor who will then sell direct within his market. So I am going to do the Whittlebury Hall show to pick some up.
 

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