can you tell me why ?

Can you tell me why ? some contributers on this [and other forums ] take exception to people being allowed to make there own minds up about the equipment they want to buy ...

on numerous recent thread various contributer have effective told people you must do this or you can't do that ...when the question is subjective .

let me try a none hifi hypothetical ....

you want to buy a new car ....would you go and buy a car on someones recommendation that you don't know .....the answer is of course no ...you'd canvass your friends and aquaintences and then go down to the car sales place and get a test drive ....

you would not take the advice of someone saying its plastic so it wont rust and as is got three wheels its much more stable ..all the rest have four so they crap.


Well effectively some contributers are saying that people with quiries should follow their advice to the exclusion of any other opinion. A wobetide anyone suggesting that someone go out and listen for themselves .


We've all seen example of this ....and in my opinion it makes the forum a poorer place .....ie less new comers and falling traffic ....

I think you will agree that this as the blub says ...should be a broad church were all ...and I mean all opinions are tolerated .

If this is not the case ..maybe It should say in big letters that this forum is only for those that share the same opinions and anyone else is not to be tolerated !

 

I think it is more people getting fed up with the complete cable bullshit.

 

Zanash,
What are your opinions on Aromatherapy?

 

No one had said any such thing.

What is happening these days is that the 'emperor's new foo' is both seen to be empty, and people are calling it.

In other words there is actually stronger encouragement to listen for yourself, to not merely to accept the spiel of anyone trying to sell your something, to critically assess. It's most obvious in the fringe areas like cables because the return on increased investment there is often utterly, demonstrably, poor.

But the final choice always, always rests with the individual and no one here (however vigourous a POV they appear to have) would deny that choice *is* individual and doesn't have to be justified to anyone else. Also that it is just fine to make choices on purely aesthetic grounds - life would be awfully dull otherwise.

The problems only start when, for whatever reason, pseudotechnical/irrational/easily refutable claims are made to 'justify' such choices and taken horribly literally.

 

There's a distinct difference between 'equipment' and 'wires' btw..

 

Was I scientifically justified in wearing a blue shirt to work today? What about button-down collars; are there any peer-reviewed studies on preventing collar waywardness? I mean really, how can we possibly be expected to choose our shirts without some objectivity underpinning the process?

Personally, I blame the foo-peddling cufflink vendors. They are destroying the whole shirt industry with their pointless metal things that aren't as good as buttons. The shirt makers just pander to these rip-off merchants by supplying high-end shirts with double cuffs, and the shirt reviewers are all just in on the game. I know for a fact they get kickbacks like free tie-clips.

It's these damn cufflink believers that make most people just buy cheap polo shirts from George. If only they went away, the whole shirt industry would be just peachy. With contrasting white stripes, collars and cuffs.

 

Peter, it's not our fault if you appear to be out of step with the majority view on this forum. While your opinion hasn't changed a large number of us have re-evaluated our cables using a blind protocol, and we've discovered, well nothing, that cables only make a difference in a few odd cases or when you can see them.

Now we all know you've done some nice identical cables in jackets tests before and that people seemed to like the more expensive ones. Would you be willing to put them under test again, to a fully blinded ABX, then you can prove to us they sound different and that other bias's aren't at work.

If I heard the differences I'd change my mind, I've done it before, I'm neither too proud nor obstinate to reject what I hear. I still believe in the cd lathe fairy for example, even though most reject that as foo.

 

There doesn't appear to be a mention of cables in the OP. He's being very general.

And there has been a widespread hardening of the orthodoxies in some forums, not just about cables.

If I said that under blind conditions I liked an Arcam CD player more than a Cyrus, or vice versa, or that I preferred the sound of a particular DAC, there are a number of people on this and other forums that would dismiss those results, not even consider them as an outlier. There may be some questioning of the methodology, but only as a precursor to dismissal of the results.

There are a number of people on the forums who have done such tests, level-matched and blind, and heard differences. The default position here is to rubbish such tests.

And no-one backs up their position, merely gainsaying the other. Bad science all around, methinks.

 

Firstly a blind test if conducted properly does not ask what you prefer as that is not relevant, it asks can you tell the difference between A or B when your eyes are taken out of the equation.

Can you link some properly conducted tests that have been level matched and blind please.

 

Isn't the fact that plastic doesn't rust all to do with Chemistry?

 

Yes, but it may degrade in other ways; and that too is to do with chemistry.

 

It does?

 

Ok.Ok. So I read physics at university (a very long time ago.)

Two quotes I remember:

1. Chemistry is just the physics of the outer electron shell.

2. The are two sciences - physics and stamp collection.

(Physics describes the mechanisms. All other sciences are just classification systems.)

Shall we get back to audio? It might even be safer.

 

But but but....Audio per se in the current realm is just a load of bollocks really. It's down to what you enjoy listening to and not having the 'ultimate system'

Having been to the Atlas Cables showcase I thought most folks were actually listening to the systems rather than the music. Atlas also had a big fancy box that purported to clean the electricity so your system would not have any naughty noise. This box was also silent in its operation so that there would be no transformer buzz to agitate you. Who of us lives in a noise free home? When my central heating kicks in I am aware of it no matter how loud the hi fi is. If a helicopter flies over head I am aware of it. If the cat purrs on my lap or growls at the other cat or the postman or the cars outside I am aware of it. Does this prevent me from enjoying my music.....does it ****!

Hi fi and hi end hi fi has its head planted so far up its arse and no one can agree on anything much anymore as it's always a game of 'actually I know better'.

Honestly if a change in your system be it wires or components makes you happy thats all that matters.....go listen to as much as you can within your budget and if you like what you hear then go for it.

A few years ago I ditched my 79 copper strand speaker cable and bought some home made solid silver cable. I instantly noticed a difference in the system as did a few other folks here who have no real interest in hi fi. I liked what I heard so I kept the cable.

Lately I've listened to some Tellurium Q which seemed to do the job as well as some Atlas at 2k per metre which also did the job (no better than my silver stuff though)

I've the itch for a change so will be selling the home made stuff if I can find a buyer. What will I change it to? Probably what ever is left of the spark wire in the cupboard....though I fancy the Tellurium Q.

Its all a game of sales pitch

 

Great deal of truth in all that Zygote... I agree.
(BTW John Linsley Hood trusted his cat's judgement on amp auditions so you're obviously in good company!)

 

Wrong. There are difference tests and preference tests. Google the difference between ABX and ABX-HR. Even the most pathologically anti-subjective people at Hydrogenaudio don't have a problem with that.

Hi-Fi Choice has been doing blind, level-matched tests for years. They don't link these tests... that's what you buy the mag for.

 

It is indeed down to what the buyer wants and is happy with.
No problem at all with anyone spending what they want on whatever makes them happy.

It's the bs foo and false science claims that get up my nose, pulling in the gullible and unwary with bullshit is just low tactics.

 

Perfectly put.