Capacitance in speaker cables.

[Cloth-Ears]

Can anyone tell me what low capacitance might be in terms of actual pico farads ? Some manufactures do give data.

I use Exposure amps. Tradionally the company have said use Exposure cable or cable of low capacitance.

Can anyone give me figures for capacitance, resistance and inductance for Exposure speaker cables , for me to use as a reference.

In sort of what range would you describe a cable as "low capacitance" ?

My own amps are recent so they are not as fussy as the old gear about this, but even so I want to keep to their general advice.

At the moment I'm considering some nice silver cable with data as follows :


Capacitance - picofards
100 Hz 33.3
10 kHz 34.9
30 kHz 34.6

Resistance - miliohms
100hz 46.0
10khz 48.4
30khz 53.0

Inductance - microhenry
100hz 1.50
10khz 0.54
30khz 0.56

 

[Cloth-Ears]

Just a quick follow up question here.

You see pico farads sometimes expressed in terms of the metre, or the foot. Does this make a difference ? If you see it expressed in feet terms how do you convert it to compare with a figure for another cable expressed in terms of the metre ?

 

[SCIDB]

Hi,

If the values are in the low picofarads that it is a low capacitances cable. For example, Naim Naca5 has a capacitance of about 20 picofarads per metre. For total capacitance, times the figure per meter by the total length.

To get feet to metres, you need to times the number of feet by 0.3048 to get an answer in metres. There are just over 3 feet in a metre.

In general, if a cable has low capacitance, it can have high inducatance. Cables that have conductors that are spaced between them have low capacitance/high inductance. Conductors that are close together have high capacitance/low inductance. To get low capacitance & low inductance special designs can be used.

Amps like Exposure like to see a certain amount of inductance/capcitance so that they remain stable when operating.

Cables like litz cable and Goertz cables have low inductance & high capcitance. These could cause amps like exposure to go unstable odd or to fail.

I see no reason why these cables will not work with your exposure amps.

SCIDB

 

[Cloth-Ears]

Thank you.

The new Exposure amps aren't so fussy as the old gear and there are no longer stipulations from the company. In a sense though, that's a pity simply because it opens up the agony of choice and audiphile neurosis ! Indeed, a couple of years back there was a guy they used for marketing who tried to tell me that Exposure cable would not do the 23 and 28 New Classics series justice and suggested Chord Signature ........leading to my disdain and then cable rants on the internet. No, I won't pay as much for wires as a main hifi component. It really shocked me to hear that from someone associated with a company that was so down to earth that previosly it would say only use this in house stuff we practically give away.

I think the solution lies in

1) Better cable but not made by a big name with all it's BS and pricing nonsense
2) That still conforms to what the stable of amplifiers prefer - hence my query here before buying.

I knew already about the position with Naim amplifiers, particularly the old ones, requireing low capacitance and inductance. Therefore I'm not surprised to see that coming in at 20 for the metre. I know that Exposure cable ( no longer made ) is similar and so is Linn K20. ( I've even seen a comment on some forum that all were of the same wire then just sheathed and branded differently after that ! ) What I don't know is what sort of range of figures would be regarded low or high. Atlas cables give figures and I have seen some multi stranded copper cables go several times that of Naim cable and one or two double again. So there does seem to be a lot of variation, even among an outwardly similar category of cable.

But this silver cable I'm contemplating seems ok then, you say. It will be interesting to find out from Chord what figures they have for Odyssey, Epic and Signature - all cables recommended for use with my 23 and 28's. I guess they will be low too. The easiest thing would just be to go out and get a set of Odyssey's and have done with it. But for about double the Odyssey I could have stuff that is said to match or outclass the top stuff from Chord and Nordost. In other words, expensive yes but a one off payment and much much better value that what these companies provide. Just so long as the figures fit well with the amps though, again hence my thread here.

At the moment I am still using a multi-standed copper cable called Absolute Wire - Force 4. I was using this before the new Exposures, with old Exosure amps and before that two valve amps. This is no longer made but at the time was fairly expensive. But it seems difficult to get any kind of figures for capacitance and inductance, which now is an issue. It works fine enough, but it could be selling the gear short if the figures aren't to the amp's liking. Having seen the variation there can be looking at the Atlas cables web site among different multi strandded copper cables, I'd love to know about this stuff. I believe it was imported by Absolute Sounds. A phone call I made there once got a don't know from the guy I spoke to. Ideas on that one ?

 

[zanash]

as scidb says ....looking at the design will give a good indication as to the type of cable on offer .....

Normally when this is specified ie you can only use such and such low capacitance [high inductance] type cable is because the maker has not fitted a zobel network to the amp [unless I'm being too simplistic].

 

[Cloth-Ears]

I believe they say, or used to say certainly, that you should use a cable of BOTH low capacitance and lowish inductance.
I am told that the latter is still possible depending on how the cable is contructed. But the modern day Exposure amps aren't so fussy. Ditto for Naim even. I'm just trying to stay within reasonable boundries.

Yet still, I want to keep things in a similar ball park of electrical values. I wouldn't want to spend a lot of money on very fine materials only for them to simply not work as well as cheap stuff that does conform. I'm trying to get high quality stuff like the silver cables I gave data about that does. So far it seems that it's figures look like having lowish capacitance, by comparison with Naim's Naca, a low capacitance cable, which is 20.
Hence this thread, to actually go about it froma position of facts about the cable, not guesswork.

Chord cables are KNOWN to work very, very well with my amps. There aren't figures out yet but I accept that they work well. I object to the pricing though when I can get absoluitely top notch materials from cottage industry makers for less than the price of a middling product from an established big name. This is not intended as a cable rant at all; I'm merely explaining my dillema. Still, if I am to get anything cottagy it will have to fall into the same electrical ball park. Alternatively , the idea of getting an easy, off the shelf solution that is known to work extremely well and recommended by amps manufacturer and forum opinion, is a very seductive one indeed.

In spite of my annoyance over pricing and dealer mark ups I feel myself very attracted to this safe option. Chord's Epic cable comes very,very highly recommded to me.

 

[oceanobsession]

Re capacitance in speaker cables

Why dont you try (http://www.the-missing-link.net/index.htm)
he will give you electrical figures for all his cables and there not
as expensive as chord etc

I would not pay silly money for copper wire after all it is not expensive to buy

I would expect to pay more for pure silver but then how pure is it. you have no way of testing it.