Cartridge for SME 3009?

mjp200581

mjp200581

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Can anyone recommend a cartridge which will work well on a Thorens TD125 Mk2 fitted with SME 3009 series 2 'improved' arm?

I currently have an old ortofon M20 FL super which is nice but replacement styli are over £100! I figure for not much more I could buy a whole new cartridge.

My preamp (CA 640P) has both MM and MC inputs.
I'd like to spend an absolute max of £200 on the cartridge and I'd consider it a bonus if the replacement styli were sensibly priced.
My system is slightly bright and thin(ish) at the bottom end so I certainly don't want a cartridge which will exacerbate this.
 
I know times have moved on, but the price of many popular cartridge makes has shot up and very few have stayed static.

One that should work is the Pickering XV15/625 and better 757S. The AT440MLa will be great, as well as should the Shure M97Xe.

Grado's? not after the M20FL Super, as they're dull, dull, dull!!!!!

Lastly and most importantly, may I respectfully suggest that as "magnetic" cartridges go, the M20FL Super with new stylus (I got mine from William Thakker on fleabay) is a darned good cartridge still and you're going to have to go well up the (expensive) Ortofon ladder to get the modern equivalent (the Blue from memory, or possibly the older Super OM30/540mk2). Seriously, a new old stock stylus is well worth while.

Just my view, but I have done what you were considering and still rate the M20FL Super highly. Mine has the CAP210 on it's backside and these are still available for under a tenner..


P.S. I've just re-read the original post and realised you have the "Improved" SME. If this has the fixed headshell, the M20E Super stylus fits the same body and trades some treble precision for a wonderful airy atmosphere in the midrange at its 1.25g tracking force (my M20FL needs 1.6 - 1.75 to track securely)
 
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AT440MLa is great but has some top end lift.

The M20FL was a good cartridge back in the day and MMs haven't really advanced over the years. If £100 gets you a NOS Ortofon stylus you effectively have a new cartridge.
 
RobHolt said:
AT440MLa is great but has some top end lift.

The M20FL was a good cartridge back in the day and MMs haven't really advanced over the years. If £100 gets you a NOS Ortofon stylus you effectively have a new cartridge.
Click to expand...

Well, I agree here. If you enjoyed the Ortofon, go for it, it's a nice, detailed and fairly neutral cart. I wouldn't go with the AT440 MLa, even loaded down to 32k...

IMHO, if you listen to lots of voices, jazz, and classical and your system tends to a thin and bright sound, the Grado won't sound dull at all. The Pickering's no slouch either, I agree.

Some interesting reviews and samples of different carts here:

http://daveyw.edsstuff.org/vinyl/cartridges/

Regards,

Vincula
 
Thanks for the posts. The general consensus seems to be that I'd be better off replacing the stylus rather than going for a new cart.
DSJR I'm interested in your comment about using the M20E super stylus. Just to confirm the cartridge body on mine is gold coloured and has ortofon 210 written on the back. The stylus is marked M20 FL super. So can I use the M20E stylus on this cart with the change in presentation you described?
 
If it has '210' on the back it will have the optional loading capacitor fitted.
 
For what it's worth, I recently picked up a vintage Stanton 681EEE body from e-bay for peanuts and added an aftermarket stylus (LPGear 1800S for Pickering XV-15 - which is in fact the same body - for about £60). Hugely impressed with the sound and has led to retirement of my Goldring 1022. I think something like that would work very nicely in a 3009, and if you don't like the idea of a/m styli, there are a few original Pickerings still to be had. I know it's trading one old body for another, but the Pickering/Stanton has a very solid and tuneful bass and vocals sound nicely rounded and present to my ears. Also tracks like a dream.
 
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I think LP gear also offer a replacement stylus for my ortofon at around half the price of a genuine one. So you reckon their styli are OK then?
 
Well, I've only got a sample of one to go on, but yes, mine seems to be fine. I'd done a bit of research around the fora beforehand and the general message about LPGear and in particular their Stanton/Pickering Shibata stylus seemed to be positive - I think they are actually made by a Japanese company called JICO. I wasn't ready to splash out twice as much for a genuine Pickering D1800s at that point, at least until I knew what the cart was capable of.
 
Hamilton said:
I'd done a bit of research around the fora beforehand and the general message about LPGear and in particular their Stanton/Pickering Shibata stylus seemed to be positive - I think they are actually made by a Japanese company called JICO.
Click to expand...

Very good in my experience. I bought a new Stanton 681EEE. It came with a misaligned cantilever and sounded like crap. Ordered a Shibata/Jico stylus from LP Gear and it started swinging inmediately on an old TD145 MK II I've already passed on to a friend of mine, who's still very pleased with the combo.

"Fortunately" he's not an audiophile, so I suppose he'll keep it forever...

Regards,

Vincula
 
The 681EEE is now sounding better to me than I remember it sounding back in the late 70's when mine was retired and all but forgotten for thirty odd years until I re-discovered it.. The balance is more band-limited than the M20FL though, although a decent Shibata or Jico SAS tip would liven things up a bit (the pickering Shibata one may be an equivalent of the 681EEE mk2S they used to do).

Ortofon were a bit naughty with the keyhole-fitting styli they made back then, even though the innards may not have been entirely different. The M20E Super and M20FL Super both share the same body (I have both styli), yet the M20E as fitted to some Duals is different (I cannot be sure but I reckon it's different to the VMS20E as well).

For a ton and a bit, get a new stylus! if you're willing to double that, then possibly the AT150MLX (more refined than the 440MLa I'm told), a Rega Exact or an Ortofon Blue perhaps, but whether the sonics would be any different is anyone's guess.

P.S. Unless they've changed the spec, Jico's M20FL stylus was categorised as a CONICAL on their site.......

One other oldie, where styli are still available and "new" cartridges can still be bought, is the ADC XLM series. The III Improved was the last and featured a good quality diamond on a tapered cantilever (the Phase 4 which came after reverted to a standard cantilever with no sonic shortcomings). Tracking is good at 1.25 - 1.3grammes and this family love the SME arms of this period too :)
 
DSJR said:
The 681EEE is now sounding better to me than I remember it sounding back in the late 70's when mine was retired and all but forgotten for thirty odd years until I re-discovered it.. The balance is more band-limited than the M20FL though, although a decent Shibata or Jico SAS tip would liven things up a bit (the pickering Shibata one may be an equivalent of the 681EEE mk2S they used to do).
Click to expand...

Here's a longish but interesting thread on the 681EEE:

http://www.vinylengine.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=22669&highlight=

Regards,

Vincula
 
Thank you to everyone for your input it is very much appreciated. Unfortunately the TD125 has stopped working (no power to motor) so my vinyl activities have been stopped altogether! I'm going to start a new thread related to the problem. All help appreciated!
 

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