Cheap Carts and Stages- help please!

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merlin

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OK so I've only gone and done it again:rolleyes:

The lure of the mystic pizza got the better of me and I ordered another TT. Now I have to get both a phono stage and a cartridge, but I want to start off low, so I need some recommendations for a pair that cost around 500 quid all in.

So calling all the unwashed;)
 
wooohooo! knew you'd be back!. once you've tasted mrs miggins black pizzas, theres no going back! :)

whats the deck its to go on first of all?

:)
Chris
 
Originally posted by bottleneck
whats the deck its to go on first of all?

:)
Chris
Click to expand...

Oh Chris! Do I have to tell? I was hoping to keep it a secret:D

What I will say is that it has a unipivot arm. And no suspension!

Come on Chris, you will be amazed to hear that I might well have a valve amp in a couple of months too:D
 
CARTRIDGE MAN MUSIC MAKER 2 mm cartridge 300

EAR 834P mm phonostage with vol control 275


A high output moving iron cartridge that will work well with a quality MM stage, such as the above. A medium mass cartridge (a re-built grado infact) which will work well in most arms.

www.emporium.dircon.co.uk

Chris
 
great stuff! I look forward to hearing more :)

hope this one is finally '' a keeper!''


NB general rule of thumb, stay away from heavy cartridges on lighter unipivots. they no likee.

Chris
 
Thanks Chris:)

I was looking at the MusicMaker but the one I was aware of was 500 and I figured that by the time I had a phono stage I would be up to a grand which seems excessive as a starting point.

As you might know, I am trying to get some money together, so funds are tight. The Sim kit may well go and I am eyeing up the amp replacement but there is a three month waiting list:(

Might as well spill the beans! The amp will be a Berning Z270 and the TT is from Vpi, all as recommended by my favourite speaker designer and guru Bobby Palkovic!

What about the Sumiko BPS and the Dynavector, others have pointed me in that direction?
 
Hiya merlin - its such a personal thing, with little right or wrong. Very hard to make firm reccomendations..

My type of sound may be so different to what you like - and you know this probably more than me with all the modelling youve done with your tact.

The few tacit beliefs Ive been forming are...

1) I personally prefer to use a cartridge with more gain, so that I can use it in a MM stage. I have found the step up transfomers Ive heard sound ... slightly more shouty (?) but if you want a low output MC cart... hobsons choice!

TOm (NOS-42) has a VPI turntable. Perhaps he can help with cartridge compatability.

I wouldnt like to comment on the BPS or Dynavector per se, I havent heard enough of their cartridges to comment. SCIDB is my usual port of call when I want to know more about cartridges!.

I would also like to reccomend clearaudio's MMs like the aurum beta S, which sounds within a shade of the best £500 MC's. A great bet if you want something new.

NB
Have u got any vinyl!?!?!?!

Maybe a £100 goldring, £50 project phono stage and £350 LPS?? :D

get thee to netsounds!
 
The Dynavector DV10x5 is excellent.I'm currently running one in, on a PT Anniversary/Kuzma Stogi.
It's a high output coil,so can be used into a MM input,which may give you more options on the phono stage side of things.

Paul.
 
Originally posted by bottleneck
Have u got any vinyl!?!?!?!

Maybe a £100 goldring, £50 project phono stage and £350 LPS?? :D

get thee to netsounds!
Click to expand...

:D :D :D

I do have some vinyl Chris. Not a huge amount, but it seems pretty good value and fun to add to the collection.

Vpi themselves recommend the Dynavector 20xx but I don't know how much this would set be back! The EAR phono stage looks a good bet though for what I want.

Just how important is the phono stage anyway? Is it the defining character of the system, much like a Line Pre is in a traditional CD based system?
 
I have a bps with 170 hours on the clock I am thinking of passing on, circa £140.

failing that, an ortofon mc15 is very good, as is the ubiqutous goldring 1042,

can't fail to recommend the trichord dino, or john linsley hoods fono stage
 
Welcome back, brother Merlin!

If you're buying new, don't buy a cartridge in the UK - you can get the same cart, brand new, for a lot less, by buying from Germany (my Ortofon Rohmann costs just over a grand in the UK. I got it for a tad over £500 including shipping).

Here's a good online source with a wide choice:

http://www.phonophono.de/

For MM, I really like the Goldring 1042. Any of the cheaper Ortofon MCs seem to be well regarded. Alternatively, the Audio Technica OC9 is good (368 euro). The budget MC cart of choice on PFM is the Denon DL103, which is 122 euro, absurdly cheap for a cartridge with such a reputation (I've never heard it, so I can't comment, but TonyL uses one on a pretty well sorted LP12, and seems to rate it).

The EAR 834P is a very nice tube phono stage, but the version Chris has spotted is MM or high-output MC only. There's an MM/MC version that usually goes for around £350 second hand, you see them around quite a lot. Alternatively, you can get a Trichord Dino new for £300. I bought one today, so a bit early for definitive judgements, but it seems extremely good for the money and is incredibly flexible (you can optimally load it for just about any cartridge imaginable, something that isn't usually the case with cheaper phono stages).

-- Ian
 
Denon DL103

There's only one Denon DL103 - and it's a bargain (actually I lied, there are hundreds of variations - what you want is a vanilla DL103 and NOT one of the fancy ones). The 103 is 90squid in Rip-Off Britain, I believe.
As for phono stages, there are lots out there. I run a Denon transformer made specially for the 103. Hohum as WM says, but all sounds good now the Aura is back :rolleyes:
 
my favorite site for reading about cartridges (and phono stages)

www.needledoctor.com


check it out. lots of news, reviews, and pictures!

NB

You asked about phono stages - they really are a make or break component in an LP system. A bad phono stage can make LP sound worse than the worst component youve ever heard... they really can effect that kind of difference. Personally, Id budget at least £100 on this side of it, pref £100-£300..
 
The budget MC cart of choice on PFM is the Denon DL103, which is 122 euro, absurdly cheap for a cartridge with such a reputation (I've never heard it, so I can't comment, but TonyL uses one on a pretty well sorted LP12, and seems to rate it).
Click to expand...

The DL-103 is a absolute bargain. I became interested in trying one due to the amount of what can best be described a fanatical rants on the vinyl part of Audio Asylum (www.audioasylum.com). I have a Zeta on my LP12 which is perfectly matched to the very low compliance DL-103 mass wise and is a genuinely top notch arm anyway, my views on the DL-103 should be taken in this context.

I have owned decent carts in the past, the last few to pass through were a MC25FL, a MC10 Supreme, a Lydian B and a DV XX1L ââ'¬â€œ all these cost at least three times the price of the DL-103, and to be honest are different rather than better or worse. I think I actually prefer the Denon to any with the possible exception of the Lydian which was an excellent cart. No mean achievement for a 90 quid cart. The DL-103 is a great cart, the only negatives are a very slight tendency to sibilance on a few records in the early stages of running in, this gets way better with time. It is a powerful and slightly warm sounding cart that really holds the music together in a convincing way. Surface noise is really low and it tracks astoundingly well given that it has a spherical tip (better than the Ort MC25FL with its fancy line contact tip!).

As for phono stages, I've only owned two stand alone ones, a EAR 834P and my current Tom Evans Microgroove. Both are excellent, though quite different. If you go for the cheap Denon it does leave more dosh free for a stage, and as the stage is obviously going to last longer so its probably a good way to go.

Tony.
 
Thanks for all the tips guys, it's so nice to see genuine advice without any absolutism!

From what I can read between the lines, it would seem my best shout would be to get something like the Denon, and spend more on a higher quality phono stage that will see me through a few cartridge upgrades in years to come. Would that be correct?

Also, and I'm being serious here, has anyone an opinion on the Stageline/flatcap combo in a non Naim setup?
 
Originally posted by merlin

Just how important is the phono stage anyway? Is it the defining character of the system
Click to expand...
I think it depends on what preamp you have. Naim preamps have very, very good built-in phono stages, so much so that I've given up in my quest for a better outboard one.

an opinion on the Stageline/flatcap combo in a non Naim setup?
Click to expand...
Should be very good indeed. Give it a go. Naim built their reputation around phono stages, preamps and tuners.
 
Hi Merlin

Theres just one more thing I wanted to add.

With most (but not all, Graaf is an exception for one) valve phono stages you get a fixed level. This is fine - it just means that you need to shop for a cartridge that has a good match with its output. Getting it reasonably close is fine.

IMHO careful and exact matching of cartridge level to the phono stage is a lot more relevant and appreciable with transistor phono stages. I dont know why this seems to be the case - but it is my experience.

If I were buying a transistor phono stage, I would be looking for variable gain on the input.

Luckily its fairly common to have this feature in the price bracket you will be looking at.

If you've read a review of the Dino, its rather good if you have future upgrade plans because you can add a PSU later, or a further Dino and 2 x PSUs and monoblock it with seperate power supplies.


NB Back on valve phono stages for a minute, the WAD one is worth a mention with its seperate PSU.


Chris
 
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an opinion on the Stageline/flatcap combo in a non Naim setup?
Click to expand...

I dem'd the Stageline / Flatcap 2 against the Tom Evans Microgroove and chose the latter ââ'¬â€œ the Stageline is very good though. I reckon that it would take off if powered by a second hand Hicap or equivalent (Avondale etc). If you are DIY able the old Naim Snaps can be modded to perform very well for about 60 quid and an evenings work ââ'¬â€œ check out pfm's DIY room for the Andy Weekes regulator boards. You can also 'make' a Stageline / Prefix from a pair of Naim 323 or 523 boards (about 40-50 quid second hand), again details on pfm.

Tony.
 

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