Definitive Audio - thank you

Just wanted to let those who haven't had the pleasure know how great Definitive Audio [of Long Eaton, between Derby and Nottingham] are. We went to listen to Border Patrol amps and Living Voice OBXs last Friday. Kevin spent nearly six hours with us despite being ill and looking like death warmed up. Really was beyond the call. Didn't slag my current kit off, listened to what we said we wanted and and played some top music. Having had less-than-great experiences closer to home it was refreshing to come across a dealer who gives the impression that they care about the customer as much as the music, and who REALLY knows what they're talking about.

I will be buying stuff from him in the near future and would recommend them to anyone on the forum if they sell anything you covet.

Lynn makes a wicked cup of builders' tea too !!.

Paul and Sarah-Jane

 

High praise indeed Paul and from your account it appears as though your dealer deserved it!

I am still smarting from an experience I had with a Berkshire-based audio consultant a couple of weeks ago.

After having spent £8K with him in the last year and waited 7 months after payment for delivery of my speakers (to be fair I had the importers demo pair at home for the whole of that period!) his petulant attitude to my power amp purchase really annoyed me!

After arriving at my home to deliver my Amphion Krypton speakers, he spied my new Conrad Johnson Premier 350 power amp and threw his toys out of the pram because I had not bought it from him!

I could understand this attitude had I involved him in demonstrating power amps only for me to spend my cash elswhere, but I had never approached him about a power amp purchase. He seems to think that he has an exclusive right to my continuing business just because he happens to sell that particular brand.

He took exception with the fact that I should have been able to purchase my amp from the importers (Audiofreaks) website for a 'special offer' price and stated that Audiofreaks should have directed me to him!

He expressed a similar view last year when I asked his opinion of Living Voice. It seems that direct-selling by that manufacturer also led to a falling-out!

He also 'dissed' my Tom Evans' gear for a similar reason, i.e. because he doesn't like the man!

I am really fed up with the politics bullshit involving personalities in high-end audio. Don't dealers realize that this is a real turn-off for customers willing to part with their hard-earned and virtually guarantees that they don't get further business!

My next purchase will be 'the last CD player I will ever want to buy' and I will choose the supplier with some care based on their customer-focus!

Steve

 

Paul,

Glad to hear of your good service from definitive. I have had no dealings with them, but bottleneck speaks very highly of them

Steve,

Unfortunately this kind of arrogant attitude is prevalent in the hifi biz. One of the reasons why I cut dealers/distrubutors out of the equation altogether and buy s/h!

 

I must say this dealer's attitude has certainly changed since he moved out of Camden (for I assume it is he). Used to be most amiable and helpful. I bought a fair amount of stuff from him - although not my CJ PV-10

 

I can see both sides of the story. On the one hand, hi-end hifi dealers often are a very arrogant bunch and it does them no favours. OTOH, you can hardly blame them if they get upset that manufacturers are selling direct. Personally, I'm all in favour of direct selling but I think manufacturers should not be able to have their cake and eat it. If they use dealers, then they should respect them and not sell direct, especially not undercutting their dealers. Dealers have all those overheads and are doing the manufacturer a service so they should get rewarded by getting the sale. If all they're going to be is a show/demo room for people who then buy elsewhere then they'll all go out of business so I can understand the attitude.

I think dealers need to adjust to the new realities of the internet and a global s/h market etc but that doesn't mean they should get shafted by the manufacturers they represent.

Michael.

 

Valid points Michael. Manufacturers should sell one way or the other - but not both.

 

For those of us who don't know, give us a clue (no naiming, just a clue!)

 

i can't see the problem with a manufacturer direct selling, just not at the same price as THEY sell to the dealer. if they sold direct as 85% of rrp. then that still gives a dealer a fighting chance to knock some off his profit and get the sale. a dealer could also offer other benefits such as discouns on upgrade tradeins, special event etc. things you'd expect from a high end car dealer - or a naim dealer (sorry i just had to).
cheers


julian

 

Kevin is a straight guy, I had a similar experiance about 2 years ago when I first started out, very accommidating and again nice hospitality. Shame I didn't get on with LV stuff/Cary Suff.

 

Steve,

You know what the CDP might be yet !!!

 

Very true, but he should therefore be getting annoyed with the manufacturer, NOT with a customer who has spent lots of money with him but who quite understandably bought the item in question elsewhere and importantly without taking up the dealers time demoing it first.

The point about manufacturers either dealing exclusively through dealers or not at all is a good one, and I must admit I thought largley the case for all but the cheapest brands?

Paul V - It's great you had a good experience. With reports like Snoopdog's above it's important to highlight the sadly dwindling number of really good dealers still out there.

 

Name and shame, I say.

 

Don't we have dealers good and bad thread some where mods?

 

Paul,

If one of the items you were considering was some Avatars, may I kindly draw your attention to the classified section of this very forum?

Kevin is great btw, when I want new stuff (its rare, but it happens) I go there most times.

All the best
Chris

 

Well that provoked a lot of comments for sure!

Personally I can see nothing wrong in a distributor selling direct, items such as an ex-demo amp (one which has done the rounds of the reviewers and which I bought for a substantial discount!).

Most distributors advertise items for sale on their websites and this is a great way to buy and save a small fortune if you know what you want. It does not involve a dealers time and effort and therefore I can see no reason why a dealer should complain that he is being shafted or his customer base infiltrated!

It was the attitude that implied that I should be somehow contracted on the basis of a former purchase to buy all my hi-fi from one source that I objected to!

Up to that point I had enjoyed a good relationship with that dealer and had anticipated that we may do business for some years.

As you asked Tony, the Wadia might be a bit rich for my blood! I am considering the following:-

Sim Moon Eclipse
Audio Aero Capitole
MF Tri-Vista SACD (don't laugh!)

Having recently spoken to a nice chap at the Audio Venue in Maidenhead, their stable of manufacturers allows comparison between the Sim, ARC CD3, Krell and MF.

A quick phone chat with Oxford Audio Consultants reveals they favour the Audio Aero over the ARC CD3, Naim CDS3, Krell and MF!

I'm in no hurry and hope to have a listen to all on the shortlist before opening my wallet to another dealer.

Any suggestions for other CD player contenders or quality dealers?

Steve

 

Steve,

A real no brainer from that list sir Sim Eclispe, you could ask Robbo about its potential, he runs one

 

Snoopdog,

You can always come over for a listen if you wish to hear one outside the pressurised environment of a dealer.

There's a very nice limited edition Eclipse currently for sale on Audiogon if you wish to save a fortune.

 

Hi Paul V,

Glad you had a excellent experience at Definitive Audio with the Border Patrol & Living Voice. Kevin is a top bloke. I remember communicating with you some months ago when you were interested in the Border Patrol amps. I'm glad you enjoyed the good service. The downside of this industry is that some people are better than others. It's not always easy to find good dealers & good service.

SCIDB

 

yes I,d agree IF you can find one...........I,looked worldwide for over 12 months

nova works great with the I5 int amp FWIW

the AA is a stunning CDP ,had an early mk2 now have a late mk 2 with latest
chip.........to my ear's I could'nt tell them apart {did a direct/blind comparison}

regardless of the flack M/F gear gets on here the M/F dac's very good
also add a Nu-vista to your list

opus 21 another possibility

if your near me your welcome to a listen

 

That's true.

Michael.