Denon Cartidges ?

[jonboselector]

Question : - What are Denon DL304's like ? It was suggested for my Hadcock 228 arm but I know very little about it other than it is very low output which would probably be ok with my LFD phono stage.
________
Paxil Settlement Information

 

[TonyL]

What are Denon DL304's like ?

I'm very curious about this one myself - looks like a interesting cart for 200 quid-ish. I did a search on www.audioasylum.com a while back, and feelings are quite divided, many thinking the cheaper 103 (which I currently use) to be better, others saying its a bit bright, others saying its superb. I have no idea who to believe.

Please keep us posted if you take the plunge!

Tony.

 

[Markus S]

When reactions vary significantly, there are three possible reasons IME:

1. Sample variations; unlikely with Denon, but always possible with cartridges.

2. Set-up variations; many people seem incapable of following set-up instructions and then blame the results on the cart istead of themselves. A dealer who knows what he's doing can be very much worth his money.

3. The cartridge has a significant design flaw that bothers some listeners and others not. The un-bothered will enjoy the other strengths the cart may have, the bothered listenersd will find the cart fatally flawed.


My money would be on 2.

 

[Lt Cdr Data]

you forgot no. 4 markus, different tastes

I am using one and like it very much

 

[SCIDB]

Hi,

I have a Denon DL304 . This is a very good cartridge. At the price of around £210 it can be hard. It has good detail & resolution & life. (Not in the systems I have used it with.) It does need a good turntable & tonearm combo then you could get your bright sound. It's a good tracker as well. Worked well in a Wilson Benesch arm on a Voyd. I also tried it in a Rock Reference.

The cartridge has been in short supply so getting one may be a problem.

One to look at.

SCIDB

 

[TonyL]

Worked well in a Wilson Benesch arm on a Voyd.

Interesting. I'm sort of filing it away as a candidate for later ââ'¬â€œ I'm currently mid way through some large changes on the analogue side of things, I've swapped out my trusty LP12 for a Nottingham Spacedeck, but am currently slumming it with a RB250 (I had a Zeta on the LP12, which is a massively better arm). Next stage is to land a Spacearm, which is a unipivot, so I'm not too sure how much it will like my current DL-103. If the Spacearm / 103 turns out to be less than a perfect match I may well hunt down a 304...

Tony.

 

[bottleneck]

Originally posted by TonyL
Interesting. I'm sort of filing it away as a candidate for later ââ'¬â€œ I'm currently mid way through some large changes on the analogue side of things, I've swapped out my trusty LP12 for a Nottingham Spacedeck, but am currently slumming it with a RB250 (I had a Zeta on the LP12, which is a massively better arm). Next stage is to land a Spacearm, which is a unipivot, so I'm not too sure how much it will like my current DL-103. If the Spacearm / 103 turns out to be less than a perfect match I may well hunt down a 304...

Tony.

Hi Tony!

Careful with the spacearm matey.

I had a brief listen to space arm and also the mentor arm with my mentor deck.

Im not the best at being tactful.., they didnt do the deck justice. They muddied up the sound to these ears, and could be bettered for the money.

I ended up with a unipivot on there which works well (a kuzma see review section for detail). My dealer has also has great success with SME arms on there, which he re-wires.

I know you're your own man and will make your own mind, but would reccomend an audition of different arms on the deck..

If you want more informed advice, my reccomendation would be to speak to Kevin at Definitive, who has sold Nottingham turntables for years, and isnt afraid to criticise where its due.

All the best

 

[TonyL]

Im not the best at being tactful.., they didnt do the deck justice. They muddied up the sound to these ears, and could be bettered for the money.

With the exception of my Spacedeck the only Nottingham decks I have heard have been fitted with Nottingham arms. I have enjoyed the ones I have heard, but have not had any comparisons at all with other arms.

What cart were you using, and which version of the Spacearm (they changed it to a carbon fibre tube a while back)? I'm very curious about your findings and would certainly like to know more. I am also somewhat scared that I won't be able to get much in the way of meaningful dems as finding dealers who even stock such things is hard enough. My plan was to play it safe and simply land the arm Tom Fletcher designed for the deck!

I've been trawling the web (especially audioasylum), and the consensus there seems to be that the Spacearm is the most synergistic match with the Spacedeck, with most people preferring it to arms like the RB900 etc. One worry is that most people seem to prefer the earlier aluminium Spacearm rather than the current carbon fibre one. There are a few who have rated the Morch arms very highly as well (probably too expensive for me). You are however the first person I have found who has tried the Stogi-S on a Nottingham, which is certainly an arm that interests me (it's a unipivot and affordable, so it is on my list!), though it has met with a few unfavourable comments in its time (I suspect largely due to inappropriate setup regarding the damping fluid). What is the Kuzma's mounting system? Does it fit in a 'Rega' hole or does it need a dedicated arm base?

If you want more informed advice, my reccomendation would be to speak to Kevin at Definitive, who has sold Nottingham turntables for years, and isnt afraid to criticise where its due.

Where is Definitive? Could you please point me to a website or post their phone number.

Tony.

 

[bottleneck]

HI Tony

Definitive Audio are in Nottingham. Kevin Scott is mr Living Voice aswell as the store owner. http://www.definitiveaudio.co.uk/

Kevin fitted the Kuzma on a Rega arm board for me. Ive been happy with the result, even if it isnt a perfect visual match.


I would speak to Kevin about things really, he has tried more arm combinations on Nottingham Analogue decks than other dealers Ive called in the past (Walrus and Audio Consultants didnt venture opinion beyond stock arms when I asked them)

Ive heard mainly (from memory) the carbon fibre versions of N.A. arms. I couldnt compare the two, not having done a head-to-head with the two types of arm.

I considered an SME arm at the time, but the cost of the arm, and the cost of the SME arm board for the deck put it out of realistic budgets. N.A. charge a lot for the arm board.

Ive had no problems with the Kuzma arm Ive chosen, other than a lot of fiddling in initial weeks.

Cheers
Chris

 

[jonboselector]

I heard a Kuzma arm on a fully specced Roksan Xerxes many years ago and it was probably about the best vinyl system I've ever heard. I didn't realise it was a unipivot but that would probably explain why its soundstage was so deep and wide. The placement of musicians within the room was almost uncanny. It was played through an Albarry PP1 and a largeish Accoustic Energy speaker back when they made serious high end speakers. I don't recall the cartridge used but I think it was also Yugoslavian.
Sounds like it was a lost oppurtunity for my system mostly because not so much was known about them. As was Linn, Roksan, Michell, Pink etc ruled the UK for vinyl play.

 

[jonboselector]

Originally posted by Lt Cdr Data
you forgot no. 4 markus, different tastes

I am using one and like it very much

Reason No 5 : Different arms. eg an AT OC5 sounds like a totally different animal in a Naim Aro as opposed to an Ittok for example. Hence some say the cartridge is a high end bargain others say its cheap and nasty.
________
The Peak Towers Condominium

 

[sideshowbob]

Having owned a Kuzma Stabi S/Stogi S I can vouch for the quality of the arm, but I've never seen one secondhand without deck attached.

I got my Hadcock 242SE secondhand for £280 with trade-in on a stock RB300 from The Emporium, and despite fiddly initial set-up it's a superb arm, very well made too, unlike earlier Hadcocks. I suspect it would work extremely well on a Nottingham. Tony, I recall from the old PFM forum that you've had, ahem, entertaining experiences with older Hadcocks, but these new versions are seriously worth a try.

-- Ian

 

[jonboselector]

I most likely will upgrade from 228E in future as this is like the suck it and see stage with a Hadcock (no puns at ALL intended ). I must say I am enjoying the sheer musicality of it at present - colourful and flowing come to mind as opposed to detail and definition - makes some other arms sound quite grey and stunted.

 

[RickyC]

Sound Organisation in York have a DL304 advertised in their secondhand section for £110 - only 40 hours use! Dunno if its still available (I was in today but forgot to ask!) - give 'em a ring as they take ages to reply to emails.

http://www.soundorg.co.uk/


Rich