Do opinions matter?

RobHolt

RobHolt

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Might seem like a silly question but let me explain.

Simon (tenson) asked me the other day if I'd seen the latest issue of Hi-Fi World and I remarked that I had and then commented on how well the Quad 909 and a few other power amps had performed.
I say 'performed' but what I actually mean is 'measured' - how well did they do on the test bench.
There was a time when I would read magazines from cover to cover but increasingly I find myself scanning the test and spec pages while ignoring the actual subjective review entirely, and that perfectly describes this instance.

Various 'happenings' over the years have brought me to this position, one that for me says that subjective comments in the press and on many forums just don't interest me, because they don't matter.
Take a poll of ten listeners to a particular product and you'll usually get ten different views, with many poles apart.
Read a Hi-Fi mag review and you'll see things like shimmering treble, creamy mids and taut bass. Substitute another reviewer/listener and the above could easily be perceived as lots of 2nd harmonic distortion, lack of transparency and lack of low bass respectively. Who's right?

So my question is, do you pay any attentions to reviewer subjective comments or indeed those found online?

Or, like me, do you look at the pictures, see if the test measurements look half decent and then, perhaps, read the last paragraph of the review?
 
I find both reviewer opinion and published specs largely unconnected to what I hear or like. The only opinion I'll ever go with is my own after listening to the item in exactly the context I'd be using it. On the other hand widely held opinion or impressive specification / measurement can make me sufficiently interested to want to hear something, so I'm not saying they are entirely without use.

Tony.
 
I just can't take the reviews seriously any more. It struck me years ago that much of what was being written was driven by advertising budgets and, to a lesser extent, 'fashion'.

And 'opinions' shouldn't really matter because, as has been said, 2 people will perceive the same thing in completely different ways.

One would be foolish to ignore a general consensus that a particular product was significantly under par but aside from that I wouldn't take most of what is written in magazines very seriously at all.
 
If your a manufacturer opinion must be important. You can generate a lot of interest in a product if it gets a good review, i always look to see what a reviewers reference is.

This has obviously changed a fair bit as most people who read the magazines probably look at forums too.
The interested generated by manufacturers on certain Pink forums has been impressive, there is no way you could reach a specific audience like that using advertising, or reviews.
If the products any good it should speak for itself. You should try it in your own system/environment if possible.

Some products have stood the test of time as you both know Tony/Rob (because you own them!)
 
muz640 said:
Some products have stood the test of time as you both know Tony/Rob (because you own them!)
Click to expand...

True, but opinions are sill widely divided on those. Certainly I've heard ESLs described as transparent and fast by one listener and vague and wooly by another.

TonyL said:
I find both reviewer opinion and published specs largely unconnected to what I hear or like. The only opinion I'll ever go with is my own after listening to the item in exactly the context I'd be using it. On the other hand widely held opinion or impressive specification / measurement can make me sufficiently interested to want to hear something, so I'm not saying they are entirely without use.

Tony.
Click to expand...

I know what you mean there. With me it depends on the product.
I find that the test data usually tells me all I need to know about electronics in order to get a good handle on a product's true worth. IMO that's because, other than load matching there are no substantial interactions with the environment to consider.
Not so for speakers or indeed other electro-mechanical devices. With speakers the lab testing can tell you a lot about the final result in the listening room but certainly not all. That's because in those instances we have to seriously consider the environment where every room and listening position will be different. Relating the specs to what is happening in a real room is far more difficult IMO.
 
I think I've gone through the same cycle as Rob describes. Years ago the writing interested me, but as a student I wanted to know more about how things worked so I could have a bash at building my own. I very quickly realised that review prose bears no relation to anything I care for - in fact I just couldn't link it with what I heard.

Along the way the Press have been very partial, occasionally hilarious - rarely intentionally! - and obviously part of a sales machine. Online forums span a wider range of discussion much faster but the politics and the risks remain similar, and its a much 'noiser' medium. Ultimately its a bit of fun and online opinion is worth exactly what you paid for it, but the diversity is brilliant; it can prompt interest in things you'd never have looked at otherwise.

Funnily, all along I have a fairly clear conception in my own head - which has changed over time - as to what I find good and what is not good. I couldn't put it into words for anyone but find it an interesting challenge to try to correlate bits of it with what 'measures' well. Opinion is still involved; but the debate tends to be, shall we say, informed.
 
I'm an arts graduate and am frequently horrified by the combination of purple prose, cliche and meaningless gibberish in equipment reviews, and yet confused by anything even vaguely technical. So I just buy stuff with blue LEDs.
 
Joe said:
I'm an arts graduate and am frequently horrified by the combination of purple prose, cliche and meaningless gibberish in equipment reviews, and yet confused by anything even vaguely technical. So I just buy stuff with blue LEDs.
Click to expand...

Brilliant! I love it!
 
I am a lot like Rob i get two Mags delivered once i could not wait to read cover to cover but now i find myself only looking at a thing that catches my eye even some add. I am 84 years young so i could say truthfully that i have purchased more than my share of clunkers in the last 50 years. Now if i bye something and it sounds like an improvement then i think i am
a winner if i cant hear any improvement i am like a lot of us
i fill the system with Bull Shit. Noel W.
 
I've got no use for magazines other than technical articles or the occasional industry interview. They are completely useless IMO for telling you what something sounds like. So are most other's opinions with my experience. Each of us have everything we need to evaluate the sound of equipment -two ears and a built-in reference to the absolute sound that evolves and improves for the rest of our lives.

I can't even imagine asking another human being to tell me what I like...
 
RobHolt said:
Might seem like a silly question but let me explain.

Simon (tenson) asked me the other day if I'd seen the latest issue of Hi-Fi World and I remarked that I had and then commented on how well the Quad 909 and a few other power amps had performed.
I say 'performed' but what I actually mean is 'measured' - how well did they do on the test bench.
There was a time when I would read magazines from cover to cover but increasingly I find myself scanning the test and spec pages while ignoring the actual subjective review entirely, and that perfectly describes this instance.

Various 'happenings' over the years have brought me to this position, one that for me says that subjective comments in the press and on many forums just don't interest me, because they don't matter.
Take a poll of ten listeners to a particular product and you'll usually get ten different views, with many poles apart.
Read a Hi-Fi mag review and you'll see things like shimmering treble, creamy mids and taut bass. Substitute another reviewer/listener and the above could easily be perceived as lots of 2nd harmonic distortion, lack of transparency and lack of low bass respectively. Who's right?

So my question is, do you pay any attentions to reviewer subjective comments or indeed those found online?

Or, like me, do you look at the pictures, see if the test measurements look half decent and then, perhaps, read the last paragraph of the review?
Click to expand...

Thats exactly what I do.
Only thing is I sniff the pages of Hifi plus first.
 
The only use I see for most mags is to inform on new products that are coming out, and even then, most are scant in details that can make a real difference, eg. compatability.

Forums are better, but then there's still questions over personal preferences, lack of awareness by the person in question and even plants by sneaky manufacturers.

I now find myself frequenting more forums for a rough guide on what's available, but then at the end of the day, relying purely on my own ears for the final part of the story.

The other area that I do find interesting is from people with similar kit, and seeing what they're got on with, ie. system synergy.
 
Having only fairly recently regained my enthusiasm for electronic music reproduction I find the forums a lot more useful than the magazines in a number of ways.

For example, a lot of the products that get talked about on here and in the forums are not discussed in the magazines who tend to focus on what I suppose are more 'mainstream' products.

A good scan of the forums is also much more likely to highlight any problems associated with particular products once they have been 'tried and tested' and, perhaps even more usefully, ways around some of those problems.

If there was a hifi equivalent of 'Practical Performance Car' I'd happily subscribe. PPC is full of articles about how to get the best out of cheaper, older cars and usefull info on which bits of which cars will transplant into other cars etc etc and is not at all concerned with advertising the latest shiney new products that will somehow make your life better.
 
Do opinions matter?

Yes, but they should be taken as such. I.e. opinions, not facts. Like others, I take what the magazines write with a pinch of salt, but it's a good strarting point IMO.
 
Well yes. I don't take book reviews or cinema reviews on trust, but is possible over time to ascertain which reviewers are on your wavelength and which have tastes that don't match your own.

The same is true of hifi reviews to an extent, but the difference there is that normally you'll be slotting a new amp/source/speaker into an existing system, which may be nothing like the reviewer's system, and into a room that will almost certainly be of a different shape and size to his.
 
I'm in the same place as Rob on this. Measurements can get you very close to understanding how something sounds, though they need to be interpreted into the real world and into each room - which is the tricky part.
I still like sexy full colour photos of *audio* hardware :-) With the exception of REG, I pay no attention to what's written. Most of the time I have no idea what the f*uk the writers are on about.
 
Hi,

I too like looking at mags for the pictures. I don't mind opinions much. I take them with a pinch of salt. I do like looking at measurements but these don't tell you everything. You can measure a piece of kit in isolation but you don't listen to it in isolation. Many other factors have to be taken into account.

A comment about mags is that they can go on about how much better things sound giving the impression that anything over a few years old must be poor.

SCIDB
 
Flat earth is over for digital

I'm with Rob. After over a quarter of a century buying into the hype, I reckon that a competently-designed digital source and conversion suitably coupled to a competently-designed amplifier will totally suffice for my moderate listening volumes. With the general volume levels I enjoy my music at, I am convinced that any real differences in sound quality is due to:

(i) a lack of competence in product performance design, including, but not limited to, susceptibility towards externally derived electrical and mechanical interference
(ii) a measurable electrical mismatch
(iii) (the big one) subtle difference in output volume

Once these are sorted, the only area worth spending any serious money these days for me is at the end of the replay chain (for digital front ends). These days I happily run a modern mid-priced Pioneer CD/SACD or laptop front end and a Pioneer AA9 amplifier, both of which I deem as competently designed for the volumes I listen to.
 
Certainly opinions about linn naim atc sme mana etc dont matter. But thats just my opinion. ;)
 

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