Doing bank transfers on ebay.

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Baudrillard

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Is it safe to give your bank account details to a buyer via ebay? Bank transfer is attractive because the seller doesn't pay paypal commission or risk a claim back. But is it safe?
 
David Hi, that is how I prefer to be paid, the bank requires your permission to withdraw money from your account, having said that there was that recent incident when Clarkson published his bank details and someone set up a direct debit from his account, ( for charity ) ask your bank! Keith.
 
Hi Keith

Yes, I know its safe from that point of view. But thinking more from the indentity theft point of view- account number and sort code to a complete stranger on ebay.
 
I would never give my Bank Account details to a complete stranger. PayPal costs a bit more for a reason.
 
Your account number and sort code are printed on every cheque you write - on their own, they're not top secret information and of no use on their own.

Ed.
 
hmmm but surely add into the mix your name and home address, and aren't things looking a bit dodgy...
 
I've done this on ebay - and on ZG - to be honest there's a lot of mistrust in this world which should not be there (OK, I'll concede that occasionally there's reason!). On ebay I look at the buyers feedback then am happy to give SC and Acc no.
 
If Paypal gave a sniff to the seller there'd be no need for any bank transfer. Instead, in a few days time, Paypal has to be a payment option otherwise you cannot list your item. I will give major discount for no Paypal use at end of auction, after having put my sale price up to start with!
 
This was posted on the leonard cohen forum as advice for people trying to get tickets for the forthcoming concerts. Substitute goods for tickets in the text. If only half of it is true (and I've no reason to think it isn't all true) it is why I won't sell now using paypal and try to avoid e-bay whenever possible.


.1. eBay has a new security measure to protect bidders' identities and prevent fake "second chance offers". Unfortunately, this new policy is also a breeding ground for shill bidding. Bidders now appear as a***b or some such "masked" identity. Some sellers have a history of using secondary accounts to bid up their auctions. It was easier to detect before, but is much more difficult now. It is far safer to use the "Buy it Now" sales in order to avoid any potential shilling. But if you must bid, keep an eye on the bidders against you (there are statistics that are viewable, i.e. the bidder bids only on this seller's items).

2. Read the seller's feedback before buying anything! Don't just look at a number, look at the comments. You can use http://www.toolhaus.org to weed through all the feedback for a seller and view only the negative, neutral and withdrawn feedback. With high volume sellers, the positives can bury the negatives, so this tool is quite useful. Look for repeated complaints of items not arriving, or failure to communicate etc. Also look at the feedback the seller leaves - do they resort to name calling and retaliatory feedback if a buyer complains?

Never bid on someone with feedback of less than 99%. 95% is good in math class only... not in eBay. If they have less than 99%, they're not a good seller generally.

Look at the types of auctions the seller usually sells. Do they have a lot of feedback for selling tickets or high priced items? They should. Or is their feedback padded with purchases or sales of penny items - recipes and ebooks sold just to pad feedback? If you see this - run! Scammers love this trick. Look for feedback for similar items, and recent feedback. If they sold some used clothes in 2002, and now they're selling tickets and laptops, it's probably a hijacked account.

3. Your bid is binding. Do not bid on multiple items, even if you're outbid. If you bid on auction A, are outbid and bid on auction B while A is still running, you could end up winning both. If another bidder retracts their bid, it leaves you in the hot seat, with a really pissed off seller expecting their money. If you do make this mistake, be courteous and explain to A or B that you were outbid but ended up winning anyway. Offer to send payment for their final value fees so the seller isn't out anything, and they may work with you.

4. Don't fall for fake offers outside of eBay. Avoid auctions that read "e-mail me for Buy it Now" or "e-mail me at ...." Send e-mails through the "ask a question" link in the auction, otherwise you may be sending your information to someone who hijacked the account. If you win the auction, the auction page will clearly state that you are a winner or buyer. Second Chance Offers are for sellers to offer you an item if the high bidder backed out. A legitimate Second Chance Offer (SCO) will be in your eBay messages... do not respond to e-mails offering you the item if it isn't in your messages, and do not click on any links in e-mails that come directly to your mailbox. Scammers use this method frequently and will target many people to do so.

5. There is no "eBay Purchase Protection". eBay is a venue, and takes no responsibility for their sellers. If you receive an e-mail offering to complete the transaction through eBay using their protection, it is a scam. They usually want you to send money via Western Union etc. and say that you will receive the item before the funds are released to the seller. This is a lie. Once you wire money, it is gone, and it can be picked up anywhere in the world. Michael from California is really Vlad from Romania or Omar from Nigeria.

Don't respond to these sorts of messages that ask you to send your name, mailing address etc. as well. A legitimate seller that you won the item from on eBay will already have that information.

6. If you accidentally bid on a scam auction from a hijacked account, and the auction is removed by eBay, you do not have to pay. Cease contact with the seller at that point - the auction is null and void for a reason.

7. When sending payment, pay through Paypal using a credit card. Cheques and Money orders are NOT secure methods of payment. Once your money is sent, it is gone. If the seller doesn't send you the tickets, your only recourse is through small claims court in their jurisdiction.

When sending a payment through Paypal, be sure to withdraw any balance you have in your account first. If you have money in your account, Paypal uses that before it uses any other source of funding.

Change your funding source - on each transaction - to your credit card. It costs Paypal more money, so they don't want you to do this. They try to discourage you from doing so. Payment methods are from your bank account by default, so you have to change it each and every time.

Paying by Paypal with your credit card is your only safe method to pay. Paypal has buyer protection - up to $200 on some auctions, up to $2000 on others (depending on the status of your seller). Save a screen capture or copy of the auction just in case it disappears in the future, and note the amount of protection. If you only have $200 in coverage, and you end up getting scammed for more than that, you will have to go to your credit card to retrieve the difference.

8. Know your dispute times. You MUST file a claim with Paypal within 45 days of the auction. That's 45 days from the MOMENT you paid. If you file on day 45, but 2 hours after the time you paid, you are too late. Start looking at filing by day 40 to be safe.

If you don't receive anything from the seller, file for an Item Not Received claim. If you do receive something (an empty envelope even, or tickets for a different row/seat etc.) you must file a Significantly Not as Described claim.

You are given the option to communicate in the dispute console, and may come to an agreement. Otherwise, do not forget to escalate the dispute to a claim (within 20 days of filing)... this means Paypal looks at all the information and makes a decision to give you your money back.

If you win and Paypal can't retrieve the funds, or if you don't win (because the seller sent an empty envelope with tracking etc.) you MUST file a chargeback with your credit card. Usually this must be done within 60 days of the payment (or 60 days of receiving the bill with the transaction on it). Check with your credit card company to be sure. Try the Paypal route first, because you can always fall back on the credit card company. If you file with the CC company first and lose, then Paypal won't help you.

9. Do NOT buy tickets more than 45 days in advance of the concert. It can be hard to do, since you want to get them early... but if the seller sold the same tickets to 5 different people (especially the case with ticketfast tickets printed online), you won't know until it's too late to file a claim. If you do buy them in advance, make sure you've screened the seller properly and you still have recourse through your credit card company. You can also call the venue to ensure that the tickets are valid. Scammers will pay for tickets with stolen credit cards, and then the ticket company cancels the tickets!

10. Do NOT ever pay with Western Union or another wire transfer service. Scammers love them (see above!) If your seller has a good track record and doesn't take Paypal, you can use a money order or send a BANK wire transfer... it leaves you vulnerable, but you have to judge your seller. These payments can be tracked to the seller, unlike Western Union.

I have safely bough tickets on eBay - many people do it all the time. But for events in high demand, fraud runs rampant. Protect yourself, screen your seller and all should go well, but know what to do if it doesn't.

For those who plan to sell your extra tickets, know what your rights and responsibilities are as a seller. There are buyers out there committing fraud as well.

1. Accept Paypal payments from buyers in Canada, US and UK only. You don't have any seller protection from other countries.

2. Ship HARD tickets. Without delivery confirmation (signature confirmation for over $250) you have absolutely no recourse if your buyer does a chargeback, and no protection through Paypal. E-Mailed tickets simply aren't covered.

3. Ship only to confirmed addresses. Addresses in US, UK and Canada are confirmed at this point (verified is the account status... be sure you look for the words CONFIRMED). Do not ship to a gift address or an unconfirmed address, or you have no protection through Paypal.

4. Look for the part that says "Seller Protection Eligible" on the payment page. This means if the buyer commits fraud, Paypal will cover your loss in some circumstances (read the user agreement to find out how).

5. Do NOT accept Paypal for tickets being picked up in person, even for a deposit. You have to have ONLINE proof of delivery that Paypal can actually look at in order to be covered (remember the signature if over $250 US).

6. Do not accept foreign money orders. Ask for Postal Money Orders which can be cashed at the post office. If you receive a fake bank draft from overseas, you may not know for months that it was phony - and then the bank comes after you. If a country doesn't have postal money orders, request a bank to bank transfer.

7. If you do get scammed BEFORE the show, call the ticket vendor and report the tickets lost or stolen. You may have to show up at an outlet to get them replaced, and you'll have to show a credit card used to buy them in order to prove you are legit. If you paid cash, you may or may not get the tickets replaced (best to keep a photocopy!), but if they're reported stolen, the buyer won't be able to gain entry to the show with them.

8. Finally, whenever a winning buyer sends an e-mail that begins "greetings of the season to you" etc. and asks that the tickets be mailed to their student daughter in Nigeria, RUN! Do not accept a bank draft for more than the ticket amount, with a request to Western Union the overpayment. Do not ship the tickets. You'll lose your money and the tickets, and you'll be out EVERYTHING when the bank draft turns out phony. There are many scambuster web sites out there that contain sample letters, and you'd be surprised how they lack in originality.
 
Unfortunately, paying on the internet seems much riskier than it used to be.

Paypal is secure, but it seems like they have some secret agenda, and don't have the same laws applied to it that banks/bs do.

Giving your information on the net is always dodgy, so bank transfer is dodgy also.

Even though paypal is dodgy in its own right, id still prefer it.
 
"Never bid on someone with feedback of less than 99%. 95% is good in math class only... not in eBay. If they have less than 99%, they're not a good seller generally. "

Over 90% and good feedback, explanations for the 10% is fine. 9/10 is good - in or out of maths class.

Neil (100% feedback, 500 transactions, many bank transfers to and from, not as judgemental as some, with trust and hope for the human race)
 
Bank transfers are 100% secure. I can give you a Microsoft account # - the one they list on every invoice they issue - go try to rob them !

Clarkson's example is not a good one. That was a bank's fault. He got his money back in full. That is how myths are created.

I use wire transfer whenever I can. It is much safer than PayPal since the seller has to reveal his full identity. PayPal buyer's protection is a joke.
 

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