hello everyone im a newbee with a speaker cable issue....

Discussion in 'Hi-Fi and General Audio' started by rob, Aug 21, 2003.

  1. rob

    rob SCHMOOOOKIN

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    hi i need some advice on speaker cable.ive got some old gale cable which i need to upgrade.im thinking some qed silver annaversary or some Audioquest Type 2 - Solid core speaker cable. the later being the cheapest but i can probably streach to around £7 per meter.my system is , rega 3 + rb300 , wharfedale dual mono 2050a amp , wharfedale valdus 500 se speakers , marantz cd 52 and a nad 4020 a tuner. its all racked and spiked.im using some ixos 102 masterreferance interconnects but i will be upgrading them soon(perhaps nordost red dawn or similar).so if you guys can give me some advice to help me choose some speaker cable i would much appreciate it.uh btw ive tried to get some home demos on cable but i live way out in the middle of the welsh nowhare and home demos are unheard of out here.
    thanks ,
    Rob.
     
    rob, Aug 21, 2003
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  2. rob

    bottleneck talks a load of rubbish

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    Hi

    Welcome to the forum :) Why not post in the 2 sticky threads at the top?

    There was a post about 2 months ago by ''Cookie Monster''.

    There was a get together at his place I think, where they tried lots of budget speaker cables. Hopefully Cookie (or I think Robbo or WM Timpy ) will be along to tell you the verdict.

    I think the Gale cable did well, but I cant remember exactly. Some forum members have in the past reccomended DNM at your price point, but unfortunately I believe that one wasnt included in the line up.

    My own opinion is that I wouldnt change the interconnects unless youve heard a blinding difference with another one.. there seemed to be other areas where the money might be better targeted if you are looking for an improvement?

    if you tell us all a bit more about what you do/dont like about your kit, maybe we could advise what we would be looking at as a logical next step? (you'll get 100 different answers mind you)

    NB YOu dont mention your phono stage or cartridge? Is vinyl your main source, or CD?

    Again welcome, and hope you join in here :D
     
    bottleneck, Aug 21, 2003
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  3. rob

    Robbo

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    Rob,

    Welcome to the forum. At a recent bake off we tried some Gale cable and I didnt think it was too bad (assuming it is the same stuff as whay you have)

    Personally I would buy a cheap but good power cable like the Eupen and put it on the CDP or amp (you can buy it on sale or return so it can go back if you dont like it). Alternatively buy a 2nd hand trichord or lynwood power conditioner. I reckon that would make much more difference than the speaker cable at this point.

    Talk to cookiemoster or Isaac about the benefits that can be achieved from mains upgrades.

    Cheers Robbo
     
    Robbo, Aug 21, 2003
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  4. rob

    penance Arrogant Cock

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    Hi Rob

    Id agree with the use of Eupen or similar cables
    I added 2 a while back, one for CDp and one for amp.
    A nice noticeable change in dynamics and a general tightening of the sound.
    I believe AUDusa also operate a sale or return, and the guy is extremely helpful on the phone.

    HTH
     
    penance, Aug 21, 2003
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  5. rob

    Rory satisfied

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    you're listening to music through Valdus 500s?

    i'd have second thoughts about upgrading speaker wire, and upgrade the speakers instead....

    valdus 500s are not hifi Rob
    for the uninitiated, they have a horn tweeter, then 3 paper cone mid/bass drive units, in a 1metre tall cabinet-
    [​IMG]
    don't take this the wrong way Rob, but i work in a shop, and we used to 'sell' these- please please please try out some Missions or Mordaunt Shorts or Tannoys around the £200 mark- much much much better sound, and nowhere near as coloured
     
    Rory, Aug 21, 2003
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  6. rob

    domfjbrown live & breathe psy-trance

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    And what's wrong with paper drivers!? They groove a feck sight better than most polyprop/plastic/kevlar whathaveyou drivers for one thing...

    The tweeter and (no doubt) weak cabinet construction are probably the worst parts of that speaker - having never heard a pair though, I couldn't comment....
     
    domfjbrown, Aug 22, 2003
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  7. rob

    PBirkett VTEC Addict

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    Whats the big deal with his speakers, if he likes them, thats all that matters.... :p
     
    PBirkett, Aug 22, 2003
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  8. rob

    liamjf

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    I think the big deal is that if someone (ie Rory) has heard these speakers he is in a position to judge them and in his opinion Rob should spend his money on some better speakers, which seems like a fair point.

    liam.
     
    liamjf, Aug 22, 2003
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  9. rob

    rob SCHMOOOOKIN

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    wow thanks guys for the response.
    my speakers eh? you could be right.a had intended to upgrade to a set of bookshelf/stand mount sometime in the future the problem being i dont think for the same price i would get a speaker with the same big sound my wharfedales can produce.ive tried book shelf speakers in the past and they just dident sound as full if you know what i mean.any recomandations on a set of 3 way floor standers?

    the mains thing, i prefare to diy in this area.ive sheilded all my cables but im thinking of using the old gale speaker cable for mains leads and sheilding and twisting it. for the sake of a fiver spent in maplins i can get a four way plug. dunno about pureifiers and stuff, more of a cable man my self however if i could afford it(student)i would probably give it a try.

    so what dont i / do i like about my system?
    i think the mains thing does need sorted because it can be quite tempramental.(usually sounds better at night).its as if when im listening to it it sounds as if it can sound better.i think im still listening to speakers rather than the music being produced.a lot of this may have something to do with room accoustics though.its quite an odd shape.i can hear a nice sound comming through but its just not being projected enough.perhaps im just fussy but if im not happy with the sound im not happy with it.

    im using a cheap audiotechnica cartridge at the moment but i do want to upgrade this as well.(it never ends). any suggestions?im thinking a blue point or a grado.ive read that grado carts can pick up interferance from the rega motor as the arm gets closer to the spindle but this is hardly niticable whilst playing music.

    perhaps the amp is at a loss? i cant find any referance to it on the net.it was made in the late 80 early 90s and is dual mono designe, thats all i know.there are no tone controls just two volumes and a selector and another record selector.ive had a look inside and it seems to be quite well built.the thing is it has an in built phono stage and this will undoubtadly effect the performance of my turntable.

    so any suggestions about upgrading speakers/amp etc are more than welcome but you have to consider that i can only afford to buy second hand(mostly e bay)so i can only go on word of mouth rather that auditioning new kit.


    thanks again for the response guys and its nice to meet you all.


    Rob.
     
    rob, Aug 22, 2003
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  10. rob

    bottleneck talks a load of rubbish

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    Hi

    I dont think theres anything wrong with wanting a big sound. Thats probably what attracted you to those speakers in the first place.

    How big is your room by the way? - a floorstander of that proportion would in my opinion be ok for a room that is, say, 16ft by 11ft at a minimum really... theres no rule here, but often all that bass energy is just too much for a small room. (my rom is 17 by 11, and the floorstanders I use do excite room modes more than a smaller speaker would I think)

    Also, how much have you got to spend? -- Im guessing from your budget of cables that its about £300 - is that right?

    Personally, if I had a reasonably large room and your setup, Id be testing some reasonalby efficient compact second hand floorstanders.

    My own favorites being -

    Ruark Talisman II
    Linn Keiligh.
    ...both about £300 used, or some Tannoy 6 series, about £150 used.

    Id also be demo'ing some phono stages to see what the quality of your inbuilt stage is. Until you try some, you wont know if its any good of course. Basic models by Rega (£150?) Project (£50) will give you an idea.

    Im not familiar with your amp or its capabilities, so I would stay away from inefficient/difficult to drive speakers IMO

    Lastly, why not put all your kit into the car and book an hour or two at a decent store? you'll at least get an idea of which of your components cut the mustard for you.

    NB> a proper store with a demo room, and some patience... isnt it worth an hours drive to get it right?


    :) good luck
     
    bottleneck, Aug 22, 2003
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  11. rob

    Rory satisfied

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    yeh some Tannoys would be fine- there were some 611s just sold on Ebay for £150 or so- 3 way? You'd be better off with a 2way setup Rob- that way you're not paying so much for a 3 way crossover. My other suggestions would be Mordaunt Short 904/MS40/MS50/207/208/815/816/817 Tannoy M3/M4/MM/mMX3-M/611/613/P20/P30 Mission 733/734/M73i/M74i B&W DM603 Acoustic Energy Aegis 3 Wharfedale Em95/Pacific Pi20/30/40

    any of the above will give u the bass clout and punch you're after, with better low end extension than your Valdus 500s (£160 speakers btw dom). if you find any other British branded speaker on Ebay or wherever and want to ask, just post, or pm me

    don't worry about upgrading your amp- if its a dual mono one with no tone controls, it'll be a fairly upmarket one- i'd definetly hang on to it


    ps Wharfedale Pacific Pi range are cheap at www.hyperfi.co.uk at the moment. a very high quality speaker going cheap there.
     
    Rory, Aug 22, 2003
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  12. rob

    zanash

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    Don't use speaker cable to make mains cable the insulation is not normally upto it. Its quite exciting to watch it slough off and the wires collapse together in a shower of sparks with darkness to follow !!
     
    zanash, Aug 22, 2003
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  13. rob

    amazingtrade Mad Madchestoh fan

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    my uncle did this in my grandads corina when he was 15. He connected up a clock to the fuse box using bell wire, it worked fine at first my grandad was driving along and the next minute the car was on fire. He amazingly did an HND in electronics after that as well!
     
    amazingtrade, Aug 22, 2003
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  14. rob

    timpy Snake Oil free!!!

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    The Wharfedale 2050 A amp is very good, if a little safe and warmish. It was launched as an Audiolab / Arcam Delta chaser, and priced at that point, and is very competant indeed. In fact, it is probably the best component in your system at the moment along with the TT.

    They are rare though as they never really took off, but there's not much to go wrong, and it's quite capable of driving fairly difficult speakers. It's badged as Wharfedale, I can't remember who designed it or made it, but it does in fact have a worthy heritage, but memory fails me. You'll be looking at 300+ to get anything better now, probbaly more for any significant improvement, and there are more deserving things to be ejected first, I'd start with the CD52........

    .....and those speakers. I've heard them and I couldn't live with them. Try some Mission M73's (£99 these days) for starters, or keep an eye open for some used Kef Q55 / Tannoy 6 series floorstanders for a glimpse of what you might be missing. Any of these should retain the scale whilst improving in almost every other area.

    edited to say: [I should have read Rorys post properly before I started, apologies.]

    Cheers
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 24, 2003
    timpy, Aug 24, 2003
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  15. rob

    Hodgesaargh

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    Uh-oh. I made a mains cable out of some QED Qudos Silver about 2 years ago. Still using it on a dailly basis on my amp. I did put a second layer of insulation over the 3 twisted cables though. Was never sure if it actually helped the sound at all, but I kept it because I had spent time making it and it did the job!
     
    Hodgesaargh, Aug 26, 2003
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  16. rob

    rob SCHMOOOOKIN

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    hi every one,
    sorry for the delay in getting back to you all but i took a long awaited holiday.i took the plunge on the cable and went with the qed silver.what can i say? its a vast improvement.every thing is clearer and perhaps a little bright but i expected that from silver anyways.as for the speakers, your probably right.i went out today to a second hand hi fi shop in cardiff and he had some castle book shelf and also some castle floor standers£85 and £285 respectivly.i had a listen to the bookshelf and was impressed although he was using a cheap amp/cd/cable set up.sadly to say i wasent impressed enough to buy.the book shelf speakers had paper cones and when the volume was increased you could see the cones realy working hard,perhaps to hard.next came the floor standers and to tell you the truth i prefare the wharfedales,cleaner bass was the first thing i noticed with the wharfedales.all said and done though i might (probably would) of had different results from my own system.

    so the question still remains, which speakers do i look for?
    im thinking bookshelf so long as i can get a nice big sound.

    on the price range i can afford second hand i could get some MORDAUNT-SHORT 902 Signature quite cheap.

    also some b&w (Bowers & Wilkins) DM601S2 Speakers from e bay.

    has any body had any dealings with these speakers?

    cheers Rob.

    ps thanks for the info on the amp timpy.
     
    rob, Sep 1, 2003
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  17. rob

    rob SCHMOOOOKIN

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    ps
    dunno if it makes a difference but my valdus are the 500 se with the upgraded crossovers.
     
    rob, Sep 1, 2003
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  18. rob

    MO! MOnkey`ead!

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    Hi rob.

    As you say yourself, you'd perhaps need to hear them castles in your own system before judging them too harshly. They could very well just have been showing up the poor kit they were being fed by.

    The 601s are decent speakers with quite a "big" sound. The 602 are huge standMOunts and offer an even "bigger" presence. Can't remember if you've mentioned room size (and too lazy to read back :D ), but with you using them floorstanders i'll assume you've a reasonable sized room, which the 602s will require. There should be both 601s and 2s available s/h for reasonable MOney. Should be easy enough to get a home dem of both from a dealer. Find out if they're good for you then look s/h or there's prob a fair few display MOdels about. Just wait till WHF? gives something else it's latest and greatest tag! Should be in about a MOnth or so ;)

    While you're deming ;) perhaps try some MAs and some Dyn's for quality stand MOunts.

    All of which impressed in various ways. The mission 780s were my choice, (helped with bargain s/h price :D ) and though perhaps not the BIG sound you're after, maybe the M51 (which pbirkett uses) would be worth a listen.

    MO :MO!:
     
    MO!, Sep 1, 2003
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