Help! Vinyl care (esp. with Knosti)
- Thread starter digidither
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Hi,
Once you've got the L'Art du Son mixed up, don't bother trying to filter and re-use. Simply tip the fluid down the drain after about 20 LPs (depending on their relative filth) and use some fresh mixture.
I don't do anything in particular to clean the Knosti brushes. I rinse the unit, brushes included, out after each use under the tap and leave to dry over night. Seems to work fine for me.
Regards,
Stuart.
Once you've got the L'Art du Son mixed up, don't bother trying to filter and re-use. Simply tip the fluid down the drain after about 20 LPs (depending on their relative filth) and use some fresh mixture.
I don't do anything in particular to clean the Knosti brushes. I rinse the unit, brushes included, out after each use under the tap and leave to dry over night. Seems to work fine for me.
Regards,
Stuart.
Thanks Stuart. If I want to be ready to go when the Art du Son arrives, what do I need? Forums mention distilled water and brown bottles. What ratio mix do you use?
Hi - don't recall the ratio off hand but IIRC mixing instructions are on the label. No need to be exact with this stuff so don't be too concerned if you are not able to measure the quantities exactly.
I use 'pure' water from the supermarket (not sure how its done but supposed to be very low/negligible traces of minerals etc) and mix it into the bottle the Knosti fluid came in. The recommendation for brown bottles comes about I think because it is an organic mixture that may re-act to light. I store it in a cupboard and have had no problems to date.
Good luck with it. Let us know how it works out for you.
Regards,
Stuart.
I use 'pure' water from the supermarket (not sure how its done but supposed to be very low/negligible traces of minerals etc) and mix it into the bottle the Knosti fluid came in. The recommendation for brown bottles comes about I think because it is an organic mixture that may re-act to light. I store it in a cupboard and have had no problems to date.
Good luck with it. Let us know how it works out for you.
Regards,
Stuart.
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Think of cleaning crumbs with your hand off a work surface in your kitchen. If you cross a crack between two surfaces, all the crumbs are left behind in the gap.
This is what brushes do, they move the dust from off the surface of the LP, where it has no effect on sound, into the grooves, where it does affect the sound.
I wouldn't recommend isopropyl alcohol either. I do sometimes attack stubborn deposits with a little diluted with distilled water on the end of a cotton bud, but repeated applications should be avoided as it will eventually interact with the vinyl and ruin it.
Last stylus cleaner works well.
'Cheap' solutions like brushes, cloths and various other toys are generally useless IMHO, and as you've found yourself, do more harm than good. Better to save for a decent record cleaning machine.
Just my opinion.
Good luck.
This is what brushes do, they move the dust from off the surface of the LP, where it has no effect on sound, into the grooves, where it does affect the sound.
I wouldn't recommend isopropyl alcohol either. I do sometimes attack stubborn deposits with a little diluted with distilled water on the end of a cotton bud, but repeated applications should be avoided as it will eventually interact with the vinyl and ruin it.
Last stylus cleaner works well.
'Cheap' solutions like brushes, cloths and various other toys are generally useless IMHO, and as you've found yourself, do more harm than good. Better to save for a decent record cleaning machine.
Just my opinion.
Good luck.
Update on my vacuumless cleaning with the Knosti toy. Art du Son has arrived, also Last and Stylast.
1. Yes, Art du Son doesn't gunk up the stylus as much as the Knosti fluid.
2. Art du Son somehow seems to make it trickier to unscrew the plastic Knosti hubs; I ended up scratching another LP. Also, the Art du Son made the ink run on a Philips red label, so the label is stained (not a big worry) and several LPs got washed in a weak solution of red dye.
3. Some of the LPs I cleaned are markedly improved. E.g. a repeating crunch disappeared that I'd previously assumed was vinyl damage.
4. Most of the LPs aren't markedly improved. Whether these would be transformed by expensive vacuum cleaning I don't know; I must get a few professionally cleaned, to find out. With all due respect to Lynn S and others, I suspect that a lot of the remaining noise (e.g. overall ââ'¬Å"grittinessââ'¬Â) is imperfection to the grooves, either from the original pressings or from years of wear.
5. I'm most disappointed by a lack of improvement in sustained quiet stretches of classical music, e.g. the beginning of my ââ'¬Å"Das Rheingoldââ'¬Â LP is still crackly after several cleanings (not to mention the recurrent vinyl bump that's irritated me since I first played it in 1978), and the fading chorus at the end of my ââ'¬Å"Planets Suiteââ'¬Â LP is a trial of gritty distortion that not even digitizing and click-removal can fix. Half of me thinks it's amazing that one can get still get so much music out of these old lumps of plastic; the other half is reminded just how much I used to wish someone would hurry up and invent something better than LPs.
For anyone still awake, new questions:
* How weak can I dilute the Art du Son, and how many LPs can I wash in one Knosti-ful? If I dilute it 40:1, clean only 7 LPs (the capacity of the Knosti drying rack, then pour it away, that's going to work out more expensive than having my LPs commercially cleaned at £2 a time.
* Stylus care. Last and Stylast seem to do some good. They also came with a with black round-headed brush which is very good at removing fluff, but which isn't mentioned in the Last instructions. If I use this brush with care, is there any reason not to use it frequently? E.g. before each LP?
1. Yes, Art du Son doesn't gunk up the stylus as much as the Knosti fluid.
2. Art du Son somehow seems to make it trickier to unscrew the plastic Knosti hubs; I ended up scratching another LP. Also, the Art du Son made the ink run on a Philips red label, so the label is stained (not a big worry) and several LPs got washed in a weak solution of red dye.
3. Some of the LPs I cleaned are markedly improved. E.g. a repeating crunch disappeared that I'd previously assumed was vinyl damage.
4. Most of the LPs aren't markedly improved. Whether these would be transformed by expensive vacuum cleaning I don't know; I must get a few professionally cleaned, to find out. With all due respect to Lynn S and others, I suspect that a lot of the remaining noise (e.g. overall ââ'¬Å"grittinessââ'¬Â) is imperfection to the grooves, either from the original pressings or from years of wear.
5. I'm most disappointed by a lack of improvement in sustained quiet stretches of classical music, e.g. the beginning of my ââ'¬Å"Das Rheingoldââ'¬Â LP is still crackly after several cleanings (not to mention the recurrent vinyl bump that's irritated me since I first played it in 1978), and the fading chorus at the end of my ââ'¬Å"Planets Suiteââ'¬Â LP is a trial of gritty distortion that not even digitizing and click-removal can fix. Half of me thinks it's amazing that one can get still get so much music out of these old lumps of plastic; the other half is reminded just how much I used to wish someone would hurry up and invent something better than LPs.
For anyone still awake, new questions:
* How weak can I dilute the Art du Son, and how many LPs can I wash in one Knosti-ful? If I dilute it 40:1, clean only 7 LPs (the capacity of the Knosti drying rack, then pour it away, that's going to work out more expensive than having my LPs commercially cleaned at £2 a time.
* Stylus care. Last and Stylast seem to do some good. They also came with a with black round-headed brush which is very good at removing fluff, but which isn't mentioned in the Last instructions. If I use this brush with care, is there any reason not to use it frequently? E.g. before each LP?
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First of all,
don't get too hung up on all this cleaning.
I have a Knosti, and had the same problems as you, especially the label getting wet bit.
Second, I now have a KAB EV1 wet vac, which gets the records scrupulously clean to the eye, but rarely do they sound much quieter. Groove damage and stylus profile can play a bigger part here.
Finally, I don't clean my stylus unless I see gunk, which is never cos all my records are scrupulously clean see
Some diamonds are glued on to the cantilever and could come off with repeated use of stylus wet cleaners, or fluid could mygrate up into the body and damage the suspension or coils or summat.
If you see fluff, just lightly dry brush it off.
Can't help with the mixing ratio, but it sounds about right what you are already doing.
don't get too hung up on all this cleaning.
I have a Knosti, and had the same problems as you, especially the label getting wet bit.
Second, I now have a KAB EV1 wet vac, which gets the records scrupulously clean to the eye, but rarely do they sound much quieter. Groove damage and stylus profile can play a bigger part here.
Finally, I don't clean my stylus unless I see gunk, which is never cos all my records are scrupulously clean see
Some diamonds are glued on to the cantilever and could come off with repeated use of stylus wet cleaners, or fluid could mygrate up into the body and damage the suspension or coils or summat.
If you see fluff, just lightly dry brush it off.
Can't help with the mixing ratio, but it sounds about right what you are already doing.
Hi Machineman. I'm not hung up on cleaning, I'm hung up on the unlistenable quality of my fairly-well-looked after old LPs in anything but loud music with a busy rhythm section.
If vacuuming your LPs doesn't make them quieter, why do it? Seems an elaborate way to keep your stylus clean.
Anyway, if the only means to seriously impact on the clicks, crackles and bumps is digital processing, then I'll just rip as much of my collection as I can be bothered to, then haul it to the tip/charity shop.
If vacuuming your LPs doesn't make them quieter, why do it? Seems an elaborate way to keep your stylus clean.
Anyway, if the only means to seriously impact on the clicks, crackles and bumps is digital processing, then I'll just rip as much of my collection as I can be bothered to, then haul it to the tip/charity shop.
Hi - using the Knosti/KAB EV-1 combo to clean records often results in reduced noise/clicks/pops, but certainly wont always get rid of everything. Some records will have damage to the groove from previous playing with rooted needles, playing dirty and messing up the groove or just plain manufactured poorly.
Unfortunately cleaning can only do so much for your records. Sometimes I'm disapointed by the result (even though to date there has always been some improvement), but still think it is worth the effort - at the very least it helps to preserve your records and stylus.
Regards,
Stuart.
Unfortunately cleaning can only do so much for your records. Sometimes I'm disapointed by the result (even though to date there has always been some improvement), but still think it is worth the effort - at the very least it helps to preserve your records and stylus.
Regards,
Stuart.
BTW - on re-reading I think I may be sounding too down on the results of cleaning. To re-state - I have to date ALWAYS experienced improved sound post cleaning; however, cleaning doesn't always get rid of all the noise. \
Also, don't discount that at least some of the noise you are hearing is in part down to your cartridge/stylus. As Machineman mentioned, a different stylus profile could 'read' the groove from a slightly different position, picking up less/more/different signal to noise. Yeah, I know, real helpful...
Stuart.
Also, don't discount that at least some of the noise you are hearing is in part down to your cartridge/stylus. As Machineman mentioned, a different stylus profile could 'read' the groove from a slightly different position, picking up less/more/different signal to noise. Yeah, I know, real helpful...
Stuart.
larkrise
Sheepdogs prefer red wine
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Been reading this thread with much interest. I once asked Tom Fletcher of NAS about cleaning records and he told me he absolutely doesn't reccomend it - something about taking all the goodness out of the vinyl!!! Pass!
However - did have some records cleaned with an expensive VPI (spelling ?) machine and little effect. The Okki Nokki - first class result but be sure to use the later models the earlier ones have problems. I also use Last stylus cleaner but can't be sure how effective.
Part of me is seriously wondering whether vinyl is worth it. . . . I know - sacrilige.
However - did have some records cleaned with an expensive VPI (spelling ?) machine and little effect. The Okki Nokki - first class result but be sure to use the later models the earlier ones have problems. I also use Last stylus cleaner but can't be sure how effective.
Part of me is seriously wondering whether vinyl is worth it. . . . I know - sacrilige.
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Cleaning my records has always made a positive improvement to the noise floor and the detail available from my vinyl.
I used the Knosti without incident for 5 months. For £50.00 it can't be beaten IMO. And was so much better than just using a record brush / stylus brush. The improvement was so obvious in every sense. I can't wait to see if the Okki Nokki does a better job. I'm sure it will.
I used the Knosti without incident for 5 months. For £50.00 it can't be beaten IMO. And was so much better than just using a record brush / stylus brush. The improvement was so obvious in every sense. I can't wait to see if the Okki Nokki does a better job. I'm sure it will.
Pure_Carbon
Diamond Tipped.
Has anyone ever had to change the bristles on their Knosti Disco-antistat?
I've had one for about 10 years now and the brushes are looking a little "separated".
Ignore this post....just found some replacement brushes on the Knosti.de site.
I've had one for about 10 years now and the brushes are looking a little "separated".
Ignore this post....just found some replacement brushes on the Knosti.de site.
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Hi digi,
It's obvious that you are somewhat frustrated with this vinyl malarky, but I am only trying to give you the benefit of my experience with the knosti and a wet vac system.
I agree with what Stuart said.
Actually, I do it cos it prevents premature stylus wear, and I am less likely to trash it cos I'm not always fiddling/cleaning it.
Also, I like my black stuff to look liquid shiny
, especially the used stuff (covered in fingerprints etc) that you get off ebay.
Hope that answers your questions.
PS. If a record looks dirty, clean it. If it doesn't, don't bother, you're only likely to scratch it using the Knosti rack.
Just don't be disappointed if it isn't silent afterwards.
P.P.S. Try a Dynavector 10X5 for reduced surface noise, circa £250.
It's obvious that you are somewhat frustrated with this vinyl malarky, but I am only trying to give you the benefit of my experience with the knosti and a wet vac system.
I agree with what Stuart said.
Actually, I do it cos it prevents premature stylus wear, and I am less likely to trash it cos I'm not always fiddling/cleaning it.
Also, I like my black stuff to look liquid shiny
, especially the used stuff (covered in fingerprints etc) that you get off ebay.Hope that answers your questions.
PS. If a record looks dirty, clean it. If it doesn't, don't bother, you're only likely to scratch it using the Knosti rack.
Just don't be disappointed if it isn't silent afterwards.
P.P.S. Try a Dynavector 10X5 for reduced surface noise, circa £250.
£250 will buy a lot of bargain CDs and/or downloads. There's a $25 program called ClickRepair by an Aussie mathematician that seems to do a better job than all the analogue suggestions put together. Hence my username. Yes, 12" sleeves have charm (except when slightly damp storage has made them musty, like mine), and loud busy music sounds warm and punchy on vinyl (presumably due to compression?), but in sustained quiet music I doubt that the most exorbitant cleaning and playing gear can make my average LP more listenable than CD, at least to my middle-aged ears. (In fact, I find that the "vinyl sound" I enjoy in louder music survives 44.1kHz 16-bit digitising and even conversion to 192kbps mp3, so it probably is just compression I'm responding to. I probably don't belong on a "hifi" forum...)
Either your LPs are dirtier than mine or your ears are more acute (entirely possible).
None of my LPs look dirty. I took pretty good care of them. Some might have a little dust on them, but I don't think that's the main problem. Maybe I ruined them all with bad playing gear. I certainly didn't have fancy hifi through all of my vinyl buying years.
Once a persons brain has dialed in to the sound that can be obtained by vinyl, it didnt take me very long to do this, sustained and enjoyable listening with quiet music that includes a few pops and crackles is very possible.
I havent yet wet cleaned any records yet despite this listening to CD is now a real chore and has been so for nearly six months CD is something I only do if Im very relaxed in my listening chair and in danger of falling asleep.
With many so many second hand records around at £1 a time if you get a poor crackly copy go and buy another one.
Andy
mick parry
stroppy old git
Chaps
In this world, you get what you pay for.
£50 buys you a Knosti which is better than nothing.
Spending £250 will buy you a VPI which will clean your LP's a lot better but is so noisey you will use it less than you should.
Spend a grand on a Loricraft cleaner and you get an even cleaner record and absolute silence in operation.
Your choice.
Regards
Mick
In this world, you get what you pay for.
£50 buys you a Knosti which is better than nothing.
Spending £250 will buy you a VPI which will clean your LP's a lot better but is so noisey you will use it less than you should.
Spend a grand on a Loricraft cleaner and you get an even cleaner record and absolute silence in operation.
Your choice.
Regards
Mick
RobHolt
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Mick is right, skimp and you'll regret it.
Sorry to say that the only way to repair the damage and remove the sludge left behind by the Knosti is to invest in a vac cleaner.
If you cannot stretch to a VPI the Cadence Okki Nokki will do the same job for less money but literally sounds like a bloody great Dyson.
Mick I've never seen or heard the Loricraft. Is it really that quiet?
Sorry to say that the only way to repair the damage and remove the sludge left behind by the Knosti is to invest in a vac cleaner.
If you cannot stretch to a VPI the Cadence Okki Nokki will do the same job for less money but literally sounds like a bloody great Dyson.
Mick I've never seen or heard the Loricraft. Is it really that quiet?
This might or might not be relevant....Tony Revell of audio exellence told me 25 years ago that the best way to clean records was to play them.
Perhpts thats changed?
(or have i missed the point ?!)
edit...I gather there is an issue with a cleaning product on the stylus.
