Hi-Fi & AV - co-exist in the same system/room?
- Thread starter RobHolt
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Of course if you need two systems, you need two systems, especially if they are in two rooms.
But I was suggesting that (say) and AV amp can be quite as competent at driving a pair of stereo speakers as an expensively labelled "HiFi" amp.
I did say it tongue in cheek, and I think Rob understood that, but only half tongue in cheek. There are AV amps out there that will do the job well and for not a lot of money. The snobbery lies in refusing to accept that.
What about a Yamaha RX-V667? 90w per channel or 180w into a stereo pair if you use bridge mode. A remote control pre-amp and DAC thrown in for £350.
http://uk.yamaha.com/en/products/audio-visual/av-receivers-amps/rx-v667__g/
These could be better
http://www.expertreviews.co.uk/home-cinema/1279507/yamaha-launches-aventage-receivers
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Brian,
That is where I started. Children had left nest & I had opportunity (permission?) to upgrade my music kit in the sitting room, and decided to do the AV thing, investing in an AV amp and moving my older kit into the dining room. The AV side of things was great but two things began the slippery slope of upgradititis: I started listening to more music; the reproduction in the the dining room was so much better than the sitting room. The reason for the latter was the shape of the room: the dining room had better dimensions - and that was with the older speakers, improved even further when I found myself with a surplus pair of good'uns (see sig for crafty sale advert).
I got great advice and went the processor plus pre + power amp route, initially deploying the AudioLab 8000S as front as this could act as both a pre/power (for music/hifi) and a power (for feed from the av processor - which initially was the type of av integrated processor/amp you describe.
Unfortunately the itch of aural lack-of-ready-satisfaction took hold and I also wanted the physical config. where I could sit opposite the fireplace and have naked stereo and either swivel the chair or sit on the sofa and watch TV/AV.
The end result is in the sig. I have a hi-end DAC which takes digital signal [boo cry the steam boys] and that plays as vol control onto poweramp and main speakers. The TV/AV end of things is now relatively separate, but there can be integration as I take the surround digital from the processor into the hi-end DAC.
Not perfect, but very good 'to my ears', and to those who visit. It also keeps the social focus where we choose to have it. Its a 15 x 15 high ceiling sitting room so the TV/AV corner is OK and regarded as second to the fireplace as social/music focus.
That is where I started. Children had left nest & I had opportunity (permission?) to upgrade my music kit in the sitting room, and decided to do the AV thing, investing in an AV amp and moving my older kit into the dining room. The AV side of things was great but two things began the slippery slope of upgradititis: I started listening to more music; the reproduction in the the dining room was so much better than the sitting room. The reason for the latter was the shape of the room: the dining room had better dimensions - and that was with the older speakers, improved even further when I found myself with a surplus pair of good'uns (see sig for crafty sale advert).
I got great advice and went the processor plus pre + power amp route, initially deploying the AudioLab 8000S as front as this could act as both a pre/power (for music/hifi) and a power (for feed from the av processor - which initially was the type of av integrated processor/amp you describe.
Unfortunately the itch of aural lack-of-ready-satisfaction took hold and I also wanted the physical config. where I could sit opposite the fireplace and have naked stereo and either swivel the chair or sit on the sofa and watch TV/AV.
The end result is in the sig. I have a hi-end DAC which takes digital signal [boo cry the steam boys] and that plays as vol control onto poweramp and main speakers. The TV/AV end of things is now relatively separate, but there can be integration as I take the surround digital from the processor into the hi-end DAC.
Not perfect, but very good 'to my ears', and to those who visit. It also keeps the social focus where we choose to have it. Its a 15 x 15 high ceiling sitting room so the TV/AV corner is OK and regarded as second to the fireplace as social/music focus.
I've experimented with a 5:1 system using the add-on Yamaha processor to provide the centre & rear channels for your everyday system, but I hate the various film effects at home - it just doesn't work for me. Happy to experience them at the cinema.
I also thought that the DVD-A 5:1 discs were incredibly gimmicky: quite a novelty on DSOTM but just odd on other discs. Stereo is fine for me, both music and TV. TV off to one side as well. I'd quite like to have a projector at home though, mainly to get rid of the TV.
I also thought that the DVD-A 5:1 discs were incredibly gimmicky: quite a novelty on DSOTM but just odd on other discs. Stereo is fine for me, both music and TV. TV off to one side as well. I'd quite like to have a projector at home though, mainly to get rid of the TV.
the music only - or even spoken word only - production/experience is fundamentally different imho than the AV
both are about suspension of disbelief.
in the former case we as listener are trained (that is we train ourselves) to invest something in the confection - the subjective element if you will. we allow ourselves to be drawn into the stereo projection on the basis of sound alone.
with AV, including AV of music performance, there are other cues. the sound is aided by pictures in the confection. its more obviously like 'being there', its proxy for the live theatre of sitting in the grand circle. But alas, the more cinematic the production the more that the mixers have been at work, eager to reach out and grab you by the 5.1, not inviting you in but invading your space/head.
Some of that is OK to have in your sitting room, its "a night in with a video and a pizza".
* writing this reminds me that I've got too many boxes for the bang
both are about suspension of disbelief.
in the former case we as listener are trained (that is we train ourselves) to invest something in the confection - the subjective element if you will. we allow ourselves to be drawn into the stereo projection on the basis of sound alone.
with AV, including AV of music performance, there are other cues. the sound is aided by pictures in the confection. its more obviously like 'being there', its proxy for the live theatre of sitting in the grand circle. But alas, the more cinematic the production the more that the mixers have been at work, eager to reach out and grab you by the 5.1, not inviting you in but invading your space/head.
Some of that is OK to have in your sitting room, its "a night in with a video and a pizza".
* writing this reminds me that I've got too many boxes for the bang
btw, I dont think that its always recording as surrogate for 'being there', the recording is better thought of as an alternative representation.
I was at three live gigs over the past three weeks: two had all I wanted from a sound pov, the other was awful.
The two in question were both jazz performances, one where I was off to one side (in Birdland, NYC) and altho the total soundscape evaded me I really enjoyed what I did hear & see. Totally accoustic, no sound sysyem. The second was a very small jazz ensemble in a small bar (in Red Hook, NYC) and we were almost among the performers - no amplification - it was ace/memorable. Check out Ben Perowsky now.
The third was in a concert hall in UK - it was a large Afro-Cubism set, with amplification that upped the double bass so much I felt the push of air. That and the fact that they played like Galacticos made me long for the recorded version.
I was at three live gigs over the past three weeks: two had all I wanted from a sound pov, the other was awful.
The two in question were both jazz performances, one where I was off to one side (in Birdland, NYC) and altho the total soundscape evaded me I really enjoyed what I did hear & see. Totally accoustic, no sound sysyem. The second was a very small jazz ensemble in a small bar (in Red Hook, NYC) and we were almost among the performers - no amplification - it was ace/memorable. Check out Ben Perowsky now.
The third was in a concert hall in UK - it was a large Afro-Cubism set, with amplification that upped the double bass so much I felt the push of air. That and the fact that they played like Galacticos made me long for the recorded version.
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Just to be clear: I am suggesting that there are AV amps that can deliver as stereo amps with all the fancy digital processing switched off and out of circuit.
I prefer two channel stereo in all domestic circumstances. My poor old ears and tired brain get awfully confused if sound is coming at me from all directions.
Feed an AV amp with a clean stereo digital signal and from DAC to speaker terminals it can "do the biz" extremely well. My sons Maranz AV amp will match my Beresford Caiman DAC and upgraded Quad 405.
I prefer two channel stereo in all domestic circumstances. My poor old ears and tired brain get awfully confused if sound is coming at me from all directions.
Feed an AV amp with a clean stereo digital signal and from DAC to speaker terminals it can "do the biz" extremely well. My sons Maranz AV amp will match my Beresford Caiman DAC and upgraded Quad 405.
if all the AV processing stuff is genuinely switched off then all credit to Yamaha for allowing you to use it as a good quality integrrated stereo . I see that the V667 is on special offer at:
http://store.sevenoakssoundandvisio...7/1765.0.4.3?gclid=CNbWjvef1aUCFc0f4QodTxSMjQ
then we are into debate about separating all pre (DAC/attenuation) from the box that does the grunt.
http://store.sevenoakssoundandvisio...7/1765.0.4.3?gclid=CNbWjvef1aUCFc0f4QodTxSMjQ
then we are into debate about separating all pre (DAC/attenuation) from the box that does the grunt.
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i understand what you mean, there ara some great sounding AV amps around, yamaha is very good the latest denon is great, not expensive and also has facility for two channel separate power amp, the RX-V667 IS a super av receiver, my view.
i understand what you mean, there ara some great sounding AV amps around, yamaha is very good the latest denon is great, not expensive and also has facility for two channel separate power amp, the RX-V667 IS a super av receiver, my view.
in the ussage of cinema sound the most important source of sound is the dialogue, "center channel" miss the dialogue you miss the movie or others,, it is always to have the ceter spkr higher than front left and right.
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i used to work for MUSICAL IMAGES in covent garden, we done installs for many famous people and not so famous, all got treated with the same knowledge and expert advice, were is was ten pounds to multi thousands, if you know better then work on retail and get experience.
i used to work for MUSICAL IMAGES in covent garden, we done installs for many famous people and not so famous, all got treated with the same knowledge and expert advice, were is was ten pounds to multi thousands, if you know better then work on retail and get experience.
I think I'd be happy to use an AV amp for stereo duty, provided it wasn't a particularly cheap one. I say that simply because there is only so much you can throw inside the case for say £350 new, and I wouldn't expect what I would quite class as a competent amp for that. If it was £1.5k though, then I would expect a sound good enough for high-end stereo use.
What puts me off AV when I think about it deeper, is the way movie sound is mixed. Dialogue is low level and often not clear. Then they add loud FX sounds. With neighbours on the other side of the wall, and others in the house it just isn't sociable. I always watch movies on a good pair of AKG headphones, which can create a very involving sound as well.
What puts me off AV when I think about it deeper, is the way movie sound is mixed. Dialogue is low level and often not clear. Then they add loud FX sounds. With neighbours on the other side of the wall, and others in the house it just isn't sociable. I always watch movies on a good pair of AKG headphones, which can create a very involving sound as well.