HiFi Industry, are they poor at self promotion?

[SCIDB]

Hi,

Is the Hifi industry promoting itself as well as it can do?

I have been reading the latest edition of Record Collector magazine. This is a mag that features many styles of music and the collectability of music in it's many forms. Every month there are many lists, reviews and adverts of the different bits of music for sale.

As it deals with music and music software, you would think this would be an ideal medium to feature quality music reproduction products. Looking in this months edition, I see loads of ads for gigs, record fairs, cd & record racks, books, dvds, cds & records. It struck me that there is hardly anything about items to play the music on.

There is less than a quarter of a page on a vinyl Care product, one ad for replacement styli, an ad for a record cleaner kit for £5.89 and a full page ad from Teac selling all-in-one music system. for £299.

Magazine like this would have been ideal for the some in the hifi industry to target.

It seems that there is very little hifi in other mags as well. Is this a missed trick for the hifi industry?

SCIDB

 

[Corruption]

The problem with Record Collector and other magazines of that ilk is their target audience - to me the people that buy this are usually either people that know their stuff and already have a decent hi-fi, or those that would happily pay £100 for a rare record and yet spin it on a cheap mini system.

Hi-fi manufacturers know who spends money on their products, hence magazines like Stuff and T3 reviewing high-end hi-fi. That's about as far from the dedicated hi-fi magazines as they are willing to cast their net.

You could argue that record companies should advertise in hi-fi magazines, given that hi-fi without music is a bit pointless. I can't recall seeing adverts for the latest Girls Aloud CD in What Hi-Fi? however...which at least shows they have some taste

For the really top manufacturers, I guess they charge enough for their products that they feel inclined to act like Ferrari or Porsche - "our products require no promotion since they are the best, and people with enough money will seek them out". I've been collecting hi-fi and reading hi-fi magazines for the past decade yet until recently I had never heard of Goldmund, Gryphon, Burmester, Bel Canto, Accuphase or McIntosh.

The other end of the spectrum, your Arcams and Cyrus now seem to be concentrating more on the lifestyle and home-entertainment (i.e. surround sound) end of the market, hence you would be more likely to find them advertising in "house and home"....

 

[Rocker]

The quick answer is YES they are. Hi-Fi is a niche market, a market that sells individual items not solutions. The problem is that even a simple system needs a few 'boxes' to work. IMHO hi-fi is similar to the fashion market - with your new suit you need a belt, a tie, shoes, socks and a shirt. How many magazine articles have you read [in the past five years] that listed complete systems and what the buyer can expect for their hard earned cash? The industry has got to focus on complete systems, the geeks [us??] will still buy the specific individual items to upgrade our kit. The newbie to hi-fi simply wants a package that plays music that he or she wants. Hence the popularity of junk like MP3 players and iPods. They are all in one systems of a sort.

Most people are not aware of quality let alone quality sound. Take a typical evenings TV programming: a mix of styling/fashion programs with drivel like Eastenders, Australian trash and reality shows. Quality does not even get a look in! The systems demo by hi-fi dealers would open their eyes IMHO. But people have to be made aware of what quality is and that is where the manufacturers advertising budgets ought to do.

Summary: shops stock and advertise complete hi-fi systems [which includes rack and speaker stands if required] for £1K, £2K, £5K etc. The newbie customer can hear the differences in the systems and the dealer can explain how parts from the £2K system can upgrade the sound of the £1K kit.

It is hardly any real surprise that people head for shops like Dixons and buy a 'hi-fi' for £299.00! The Dixons kit will make sounds and as it does the customer thinks that is all that there is to it.

 

[SMEagol]

...all my friends think that high end is some sort of dark art. The public at large don't seek out interesting music which explains all the shite in the charts, its just bubblegum for the brain, in which case what you play it back on is not that important (comfortably numb you might say), its little wonder that hard pressed hifi companies have broadened the net to encompass lifestyle products. There is this awful generic sound in all these systems. Its a shame that hifi products that Dixons and their ilk peddle could not be described as unfit for purpose, all that copper going to waste!...

I got into hifi via a very kind shop i used to walk past in my lunch hour and look at the candy in the window, who once I'd bought a couple of items and developed a friendship let me just borrow things as I wished to see if I liked them without leaving big deposits or DNA, that kind of dealer is a rarity.

I work in the ad trade, dropping 6k on a full page is a gamble if you are niched!

 

[SCIDB]

Hi

The problem with Record Collector and other magazines of that ilk is their target audience - to me the people that buy this are usually either people that know their stuff and already have a decent hi-fi, or those that would happily pay £100 for a rare record and yet spin it on a cheap mini system.

I would think there would be a fair number of people with cheap mini systems who would pay £100 for a record. I know a few. There would also be people with expensive hifi but there will be alot of people in between. There would a number of people who would beneifit from better equipment.

Hi-fi manufacturers know who spends money on their products, hence magazines like Stuff and T3 reviewing high-end hi-fi. That's about as far from the dedicated hi-fi magazines as they are willing to cast their net.

Is this good enough? If mags did just this, they are preaching to the converted. The Hifi industry is a niche industry that seems to be shrinking. If they cast the net out further then more people could be interested.

You could argue that record companies should advertise in hi-fi magazines, given that hi-fi without music is a bit pointless. I can't recall seeing adverts for the latest Girls Aloud CD in What Hi-Fi? however...which at least shows they have some taste

I think the hifi industry needs the music industry alot more than the music industry needs the hifi industry. You don't need hifi to listen to music but you certainly need some music to listen to.

For the really top manufacturers, I guess they charge enough for their products that they feel inclined to act like Ferrari or Porsche - "our products require no promotion since they are the best, and people with enough money will seek them out". I've been collecting hi-fi and reading hi-fi magazines for the past decade yet until recently I had never heard of Goldmund, Gryphon, Burmester, Bel Canto, Accuphase or McIntosh.

High end luxury goods will appeal to the well off. People will buy certain expensive items because that what people in their positions do. Ultimate value for money does not come into it. Some luxury have a good rep. Mention Ferrari, Porsche or Rolex to most people and there is a excellent chance that they would have heard of the company. Some luxury goods will be known mainly to people with money.

Hifi as an item to aspire to has fallen down the pecking order. I remember in the 70s that hifi was 3rd in the list of desirable items. Now it may not be in the top 20.

It seems certain hifi items seem to be fighting to be top of the pile. Companies like Krell & Audio Research have done well in many markets. Companies like Goldmund & Gryphon trade on exclusivity. There is only one dealer for Gyphon in the UK for example. Some companies seem to only succeed in certain markets like Burmester.

All these companies need to sell items. So they need to appeal to well heeled people. In society, there are many well heeled people but they have loads of different thing to spend their money on. Hifi has to promote itself and compete.

The other end of the spectrum, your Arcams and Cyrus now seem to be concentrating more on the lifestyle and home-entertainment (i.e. surround sound) end of the market, hence you would be more likely to find them advertising in "house and home"....

I had a look in a number of lifestyle mags. The some had a few hifi ads but many didn't.

SCIDB

 

[FrankDeckard]

There are more and more ads in magazines such as Dwell, Arch Digest, House Beautiful, etc...

Ads have been running for years in The Robb Report with a collection of kiss-ass reviews.

It will always be a niche market product. The avenue worth exploring is the iPod user. Even if it takes them years to go from the headphone, to the single-box system, to the entry-level system, etc...

I wrote one of the first reviews of a modified iPod (Red Wine Audio iMod in 2006) and it didn't take a lot of brains to figure out that there was opportunity there.

Wadia figured it out. As did Krell, Wavelength, and a few others.

Naim, Linn, and Arcam were one of the first to add iPod inputs to their integrated amplifiers. I know that it had a positive impact on sales here in the U.S.

 

[lbr]

Hifi as an item to aspire to has fallen down the pecking order. I remember in the 70s that hifi was 3rd in the list of desirable items. Now it may not be in the top 20.

I was going to post along the lines that anyone who was willing to drop 4 figures on a "bit" of a hifi was probably already interested and looking in the places that the industry is advertising.

Your point above got me thinking differently though. You don't need to know a lot about cars to know you want a Ferrari when you win the lottery, so maybe the question is why isn't hifi an aspirational product any more?

Part of that is possibly down to promotion, but my gut feel is that it is just because music is not as important as it was 40 years ago. Popular music is not as good (a value judgement but I doubt many beyond their teens would disagree), convenience has emerged as an alternative to quality and there are simply more alternative forms of home entertainment vying for the household budget and floorspace. I'm not sure that any of these factors can be reversed by a spot of advertising. Maybe video really has killed the radio star

 

[Werner]

you want a Ferrari when you win the lottery, so maybe the question is why isn't hifi an aspirational product any more?

That's because hifi has to be fueled by the owner's personal time. A system is completely worth-less while not being listened to, whereas a Ferrari is doing 90% of its intended task when just parked in front of the door.

 

[sq225917]

if the hifi industry want's to expand it's user base it has to be promoting the right products to the right consumers via the correct medium.

The only brands really pushing outside the box are the big brands, naim with the bentley stuff, Linn with the boat stuff, meridian with the Ferrari and Dunhill stuff. They are at least trying to get a seperate foothold in the luxury lifestyle market. They do this because they know that a luxury brand association will put them on the wish list of people with disposable income, even if they aren't music lovers per'se.

Hifi needs to be made aspirational, part of that is presenting it as luxury, but the big chunk of that picture that they are missing is showing people enjoying quality music replay.

Two minutes of Inspector Morse footwaving or House enjoying his Piega does more good than any amount of advertising in the industry rags. People need to be exposed to good music replay it's as simple as that. If every decent TV drama showed just a little bit of people enjoying music replay people would be all over it.

 

[Corruption]

Hi-fi manufacturers are being short-changed by practically every majority out there, from the pre-teens who now control the spending of their parent(s) by constantly whining until they get the latest Britney/Justin Timberlake CD to the Record Industries whose profit margins are driven by reducing studio costs to the extent that a lot of modern "music" is pretty unlistenable on anything other than cheap mini systems.

The music industry got bitten big time by the failures of HDCD, SACD and DVD-Audio and I don't think they retain any interest in making music that suits high-end hi-fi products.

The overall global economy/credit crunch/fuel price rises can't be helping matters much either.....

 

[D Louth 77]

IMHO Guys

You have all put forward very valid points . Product placement in movies/tv is very un-used form of promotion . Denon micro in Woolpack in Emerdale ,Tivoli in same , Vpi and et arm in indecend Proposal , Nacamichi in 9 and half weeks . Martin Logan in Friends,Meridian in Jumper and not much more with the exception of those mentioned . All the golden opportunities missed .

IMHO the single biggest reason for the failure is that it is fractured. There is no group interest at work here its every man for himself or design approach/attitude . If all of the industry joined forces ( Retail/distribution/manufacturing/press) under a Trade body . Then the power and interest to promote would be available ,as long as it was managed well . But thats the problem who could the industry gather under ,whos flag would they follow.At present it is there own and only their own. Until that changes and all the stupidity goes ,nothing will change . It will take money and lots of business/promotion savy to change things
or save it before it is finally swept down the plug hole of disinterest .

D Louth

 

[Corruption]

I confidently predict that by 2025 the idea of hi-fi that plays physical "media" (i.e. CDs, Vinyl, DAT) will be reduced to the same level of interest as that of people who still maintain and tinker with steam engines or pedal-driven sewing machines.

Everyone else will be MP3/FLAC/whatever obsessed and music will only be able to be purchased via the internet or shops offering "download zones".

There will be mountains of CDs rotting in landfills and the very idea of a "rarity " or "mis-pressing" of a piece of music will be laughed at incredulously....

All very sad really :-(

 

[SCIDB]

The quick answer is YES they are. Hi-Fi is a niche market, a market that sells individual items not solutions. The problem is that even a simple system needs a few 'boxes' to work. IMHO hi-fi is similar to the fashion market - with your new suit you need a belt, a tie, shoes, socks and a shirt. How many magazine articles have you read [in the past five years] that listed complete systems and what the buyer can expect for their hard earned cash? The industry has got to focus on complete systems, the geeks [us??] will still buy the specific individual items to upgrade our kit. The newbie to hi-fi simply wants a package that plays music that he or she wants. Hence the popularity of junk like MP3 players and iPods. They are all in one systems of a sort.

True. You can't listen to a component in isolation. A number of people want a system solution.

Most people are not aware of quality let alone quality sound. Take a typical evenings TV programming: a mix of styling/fashion programs with drivel like Eastenders, Australian trash and reality shows. Quality does not even get a look in! The systems demo by hi-fi dealers would open their eyes IMHO. But people have to be made aware of what quality is and that is where the manufacturers advertising budgets ought to do.

The hifi industry as a whole needs to promote quality.

Summary: shops stock and advertise complete hi-fi systems [which includes rack and speaker stands if required] for £1K, £2K, £5K etc. The newbie customer can hear the differences in the systems and the dealer can explain how parts from the £2K system can upgrade the sound of the £1K kit.

Systems do perform differently. Also people do buy things that they like the look of good. It is important that there is a increase in quality has they go up in price.

It is hardly any real surprise that people head for shops like Dixons and buy a 'hi-fi' for £299.00! The Dixons kit will make sounds and as it does the customer thinks that is all that there is to it.

Some people are non the wiser of what is on the market. Some people don't want the hassle of going through the hifi shop process. Some people are just not bothered with spending more money. Some are just not bothered by ultimate quality in sound. So Dixons will appeal to a large number of people.

It's up to the hifi industry to promote the alternative.

SCIDB

 

[D Louth 77]

Corruption

You paint a very bleak future and why you may be right to a degree ,i suspect that the s/h cd market may keep some of us going for awhile . Vinyl has as s/h .

But this future is not really for me so i will sit in my ivory tower with solid media and continue to play cds and vinyl etc until they cart my corpse out the door .

Regards D Louth

 

[Dev]

D Louth,

A few of the people I know have so many CDs and records that there isn't enough time in a lifetime to listen to everything they own. So, I guess buying new CDs/Vinyl isn't as important for them and as long as their hardware is OK, they shouldn't be affected much by the demise of the physical formats.

 

[D Louth 77]

Hi Dev

I would be one of those people too.

regards D Louth

 

[PumaMan]

AVI are terrible at it. Alienate 99% of the potential market, way to go .

But yes I think a lot of hifi will be relegated in years to come to the same sort of status as Mamod hobby steam engines.

 

[Dev]

Hi Dev

I would be one of those people too.

regards D Louth

Permission to swear at you!!!.

It's an enviable position to be in IMO. Much better to have a large selection of great music and reasonable HiFi than very expensive HiFi and little music.

 

[Graffoeman]

My take on things at the moment is that the industry is confused about its position in the market place. Whereas the majority of consumers are more than happy with the world of iPod/mp3/internet delivery, we 'audiophiles' are constantly banging on about vinyl still being better than cd, dealer demonstrations, poor audio quality and perceived value. I don't think they understand how to present the technology available to them.

In an age of electronic delivery I ought to be able to download anything on Amazon/Play etc in original studio quality (24/96, 24/192), transfer it to my digital player, sit back and revel in it. But I can't!

Firstly, I can't download it because 'they' won't make it available to me. And secondly, the only way I could play it would be to jury-rig something up to my home network and hope that I can make it work! Only recently have we seen cd players sporting usb inputs to make use of the onboard dac, but that will only be at 16/44 resolution. Russ Andrews/Benchmark et al will sell me an outboard soundcard, but I need a computer to make any use of it! Same goes for the Squeezebox. Linn will sell me something called the 'Sneaky', (£1k buys me a thing called the Sneaky! ââ'¬â€œ you've got to be joking!!) but I still need a computer!

Where's the luvverly black box that doesn't need a computer, will play 24/192 wav files, can accept outboard hard drives, sd cards, usb sticks, mp3 players and all controlled from a colour screen remote? (With cover-flow, please!). At the 'low' end of the market this is all possible ââ'¬â€œ even Krell make an iPod dock, for ****'s sake - and at the high end I could give Linn or Naim £10,000 for 500 quids worth of linux pc in a posh box, but a 'measley' £1k will only buy something of nothing that may, or may not, be any better than the cd player I have already.

As the mainstream has wholeheartedly embraced portability and convenience, the 'audiophile' segment of the market has pushed the same tired technology, with ever more extravagant claims in support of increasingly unrealistic retail prices. Where 'new' technology has been embraced, it has been designed to require a computer to act as delivery agent. This is muddled thinking in my view. It's more a case of 'here's what we want to sell you' rather than the always more successful 'here's what you always wanted'!

So they probably don't sell themselves that hard because they don't really have products that will give them a return on the investment!

 

[lbr]

I had another thought. Why should consumers care?

The points made by Graffoeman regarding new technology aside (I wouldn't mind one of those black boxes too), what negative impact is the lack of promotion having on my own enjoyment of music and hifi?

I don't work in the trade and I don't have shares in any hifi companies, so I care not a jot what revenue any hifi company earns.

I don't care either whether Mr Smith from Salisbury buys Sony or Sonus Faber, whether Mrs Black from Brighton buys Bang & Olufson or Border Patrol.

I've got a rig I enjoy and there's more than enough choice and quality out there whenever I want to spend some money. Are we looking for an answer to a problem that doesn't exist?