I can't win .... Speaker Placement.

Thanks Bottleneck :)

Wickfut, can you post plots of the frequency sweeps?

As I said in my first post I don't think the issue is entirely due to room modes and bass suck-out. Looking at the picture of your room I suspect an overly long decay time in the mid and top range. Some 2" thick panels of rockwool placed strategically can help a lot, as my graphs demonstrate.

This is the room my graphs were of, my 'demonstration' set-up for the kit I make. You can see how the how I have my room treatments placed, but you don't need to take things as far as I have to get big results.

AudioSmile-DemoRoom.jpg
 
For James

In the interests of balance, EQ and room correction gear is also available from Yamaha, Roland, Lyngdorf and Behringer themselves.

Audiosmile no longer manufacture or sell passive room treatments.
 
Tenson said:
Thanks Bottleneck :)

Wickfut, can you post plots of the frequency sweeps?
Click to expand...

No sorry , I done the sweep using a synthesized sine wave in soundforge and then located the note to the closest piano key, which in turn give me the hz value.


As I said in my first post I don't think the issue is entirely due to room modes and bass suck-out. Looking at the picture of your room I suspect an overly long decay time in the mid and top range. Some 2" thick panels of rockwool placed strategically can help a lot, as my graphs demonstrate.
Click to expand...

Looking at your graph, your room treatment actually made your upper bass dip worse by -3 or -4db @ 200hz
 
The Devil said:
Oh well, there's no conflict of interest here, as Simon doesn't sell room correction gear.

Oh no, hang on, he does!
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I'm not recommending electronic correction, which is what I sell. Although it could help the situation, the real cure would be physical treatments.

Wickfut said:
Looking at your graph, your room treatment actually made your upper bass dip worse by -3 or -4db @ 200hz
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In absolute terms yes the narrow dip at 200Hz was made about -2dB worse. However, it only made a change over a very narrow section. High 'Q' dips like this are less troublesome to our ears than broad trends. It was such a small change that it can be ignored in light of the other changes.

As an experiment, can you try bringing a couple of duvets in to the room? Maybe one hung over the TV area between the speakers and one on a couple of broom handles to support it behind the listening seat? Should allow you to hear some change.
 
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When I worked with Sevenoaks Sound and Vision in Hull we had a very large pair of heavy weight curtains made with thick blackout liners for positioning behind the sofa. This helped no end to counteract the liveliness of the room and the suspended ceiling. It didn't look too bad either. I guess it comes down to domestic bliss. Either it's a lounge or it's a Hi-Fi room...?​
 
Someone mentioned Dali speakers...? I bought a brand new pair of Suite 2.8 Dali's from a Sevenoaks in Brighton at a cost of 500 pounds and they are still stunning even after the honeymoon period has passed. The mid and treble is quite bright but they are fairly well balanced overall. One thing that is notable about them is that they are very polite and tend not to aggravate in any big way. Problems...??? They are too big for my lounge.​
 
Haselsh1 said:
Someone mentioned Dali speakers...? I bought a brand new pair of Suite 2.8 Dali's from a Sevenoaks in Brighton at a cost of 500 pounds and they are still stunning even after the honeymoon period has passed. The mid and treble is quite bright but they are fairly well balanced overall. One thing that is notable about them is that they are very polite and tend not to aggravate in any big way. Problems...??? They are too big for my lounge.​
Click to expand...

yeah, it was me... :)

I've seen the 2.8s on fleabay too...in fact I bid on some a while back as a guy had bought some himself but were too big for his room and had a .99p starting bid (with a BIN for 300) - I put in a max bid of 251...

anyway, I've just won some ikon 5s for a good price too... :)
 
I live in a victorian house with wooden floors and a set up not disimilar to the original picture. I tried some Quadraspire QX7's isolation shoes under my PL100 speakers and the results were stunning. All the frequencies became more balanced and bass was far more extended. In short it sounded miles better. I'm guessing the wooden floor was absorbing alot of the energy before. Also I probably wouldn't have mirrors on the back wall behind the system as this won't help.
 
Andy said:
David, he was saying not to waste time with supports as they're not the cause of the issue. Maybe if you read posts properly before jumping the gun....
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Andy, there are so many crass statements made on the forum ist not totally surprising.

Apologies if I got the wrong end of the stick though.
 
Although not to adept with rookm treatment and have only done the minimal to my music room so far.

The one item I did learn from exeperience, was that having a large glass tv inbetween your speakers will ultimately higher the reflections of the mids and highs, thus I think waht tenson said about tryinga duvet ove rthe TV would make a difference. It certainly did with mine and now the TV is gone, replaced with a wall mounted acoustic board (can't quite remember the name)

Hope that helps.
 
right I've more or less sorted it..

thanks everyone for the help , I've discovered a few interesting things about accoustics while I've been fiddling (like when playing a sine sweep from just the left speaker and it must get to the wavelength of the room and sounds like it's comming from the right speaker etc.. )

Going to look into some corner bass traps in the comming months to take a couple of bass room nodes and a large hanging tapestry or something to take a bit of glare off.

I now have 5 different speaker cables , they all sound different in their own way (and I will be quite happy to prove it to the none believers if they're local) and one type that arrived this morning just blew my socks off :)

A pair of 2m terminated QED Revelation cables arrived and I quickly swapped out my anti-cables and noticed the sound seemed "flatter" and quieter... I soon realised that these aren't hyping/muting anything... this cable is pretty amazing, great synergy with my set up and I'm quite happy for a bit (until I spot a black CD31 and A33.2 going cheep)

once again , cheers all
 
Wickfut: mmmm, maybe you had the bass drivers out of phase- miraculously improved by untwisting the wire? Or could be you had huge inductance caused by a bad weave pattern on the cable.

Either way it sounds like you have cancellation issues in the room.
 
Is it the comments at the end about 'Putting a twist on it?' or perhaps the 'fine line between stupid and clever'?

Genius, (Spinal Tap, not you YNWAN, although that was very funny).
 
Today I learnt......

Tenson said:
Allow me to show you the problem in graphical terms. You don't have too little bass, you have too much mid and top due to your highly reflective room where the energy of the mid and highs take a long time to decay.....

This is quite a bare room room like yours. In fact it has a thick wall to wall carpet and a fabric covered sofa, but little on the walls. This means it absorbs little energy in the mid and highs so that energy keeps bouncing around the room.....


Now this is the same room with some mid and high frequency sound absorbent panels attached to the walls. One behind the sofa, and one on each side wall. About 1m square...

Note that by removing a lot of this messy sound energy bouncing around the room, the relative level between bass and mids has changed by more than 3dB. That's a big change, and it will sound like you have a lot more bass right across the range.

Not only will the mids be more proportion to the bass now, but with less reflected energy in the room you can hear more of the direct sound from the speakers and everything will be more detailed, clearer and less fatiguing to listen to.
Click to expand...


Thanks for putting into words exactly what I've been hearing, Tenson. I've been to my dealers and got some Advanced Acoustic panels on dem this weekend. Peachy :)
 
scott_01 said:
Is it the comments at the end about 'Putting a twist on it?' or perhaps the 'fine line between stupid and clever'?

Genius, (Spinal Tap, not you YNWAN, although that was very funny).
Click to expand...

Yes indeed, I think it was the last ten seconds or so that I was probably thinking of ;)
 

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