I'm a zerogain virgin ... Mains cables enquiry

I'm a zerogain virgin so be gentle with me .... Have watched with some amusement, and the occasional painful twinge, arguments to and fro about efficacy of mains cables. The language some people use to describe the differences between cables is the sort I would reserve for a major component upgrade like Amp or CDP - surely not? . Whilst others almost say a kettle cable will do and that the enthusiasts are imagining things or hearing differences and mistaking them for improvements. my own hypothesis, which I put out there to be shot down in flames, is that many of us with well-tuned ears can tell the diffeence between a bog standard, a decent aftermarket, and an extreme top end cable, but few of us would be able to hear qualitative diffferences amongst cables in broadly the same price band. But I'm open-minded and keen to learn....

I want to invest in something which will allow my core system components to perform towards their very best, but at a reasonable cost:benefit ratio; if I can find cables which will give me 80% of the very best performance for 20% of the money that will do nicely thank you. If anyone else wants to shell out the remaining four-times-as-much for a quarter of the original improvement then that's their call. So we are probably talking mid-market rather than top-end or bargain basement.

Cables will feed Isotek MiniSub (arriving shortly) into Arcam CD92/A85/P85 through to ProAc Studio 125 speakers via Blue Heaven speaker cable. Audusa Eupen and LAT AC-2 appear to be in the frame, as do Isotek's own; Experience Filtration has one or two keen backers but no independent reviews that I can find. At the very least I need to buy one cable soon to feed the Mini Sub which comes without one.

Views on these products? Any others, probably in the £60-150 range, I should be considering? I realise my kit is not top end stuff to some of you but it produces a cracking sound and I want to milk it.

Thanks in advance,

 

Audusa Eupen is reckoned to be one of the best for the money.

 

Hi Flash, welcome to the forum.

Go for the Eupens on the CD player, preferably on sale or return. Should make a good improvement, and if not, you can send it back for a refund.

On the amps, the eupens may not be your best bet. I used to use RA powerkords on my old amps to reasonably good effect.

Robbo

 

Why not try this power conditioner BADA LB3000 You can buy it from CattyLink for US$63 and have it deliverd to your door.

I know someone who has one and says it is better than his old Castle power plant. I also know about 6 other people who are going to get them. Not including myself

Or for building a DIY cable how about this Raydex Screened 3 core 10 Amp

I am actually thinking of makeing some speaker cable from that stuff, only more runs and thicker conducter area. What do you ppl think? Good cable for speakers as well as mains?!

 

I use Eupens ona similarly priced setup and rate them.

You can try the RA leads on a no quibble money back deal. Or buy some s/hand off Ebay - if you don't like them then you can re-sell with little loss (or even a gain).

 

I'd be very wary about filters (unfortunately even the isotek). They have a deserved reputation for squashing the dynamics and life out of the sound. Stick to cables unless you can stretch to a trichord isolation transformer.

 

I'd like to say a word for the cowboys...

Why not forget Eupen and use the one that came with the equipment? I've tried one and it did not a single thing. See

https://www.audio-forums.com/as-rediect/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1493

for a completely unbiased opinion

 

Yes Tones, but if Flash tries it on sale or return he can make up his own mind at no cost to himself, safely ignoring the opinions of all us 'experts'

 

No argument there, Robbo, but seeing that everyone else was "for", I just thought I'd mention the "agin'" view in my role as Tones the Unbeliever.

 

For the CD player, I would recommend the smaller of the Eupens (GNLM 05/2.5). The larger one (GNLM 05/04) made the bass a bit bloated and less dynamic.

For the amp, it depends. On my ATC I found the GNLM 05/04 to be better but results vary with other amps.

I also use GNLM 05/04 on the subwoofer.

I found it's better to treat all the components because they can all interfere with each another. However, your Minisub will reduce this effect. However, as already stated, you can return the Eupens if they don't bring a worthwhile improvement in your system.

 

Another vote for the smaller Eupen (except on my power amp where it sounded worse) and a vote against Isotek FWIW.

Alex

 

Well I use Black Rhodium Supermains cables throughout.
The 25 on the amp and Dac and a 13 on the cdp and dvd and subwoofer.
I think they made a great (drastic even) improvement (obviously have pretty sh1tty mains in my street).

I have also yesterday recieved the 8 way block (which filters and has high current protection). Haven't had time to plug it in yet but I know a few people that also have it and love the sound it gives.

Best of luck.
P.s. I might have a spare 13 kicking around you can have for a reasonable price.

 

If you want to invest in mains cables, buy what you consider to be a reasonably priced one, and wire the outlet end into a 4-way block. That way, you don't need to buy 4 cables.

Personally, I think investing in a power supply for the whole system would be a better way of improving your system.

 

And I say the right cable is the one that is long enough to reach from the wallsocket to your consumer product, and has the correct fuse. Hint - the ready made ones tell you the fuse on the plug so you don't have to piss about. Consider yourself shot.

regards

Graham C

 

another vote for eupens

cant remember the names or numbers, but thick one on amp tother on cdp.
worked a treat for me, but also got me on the rocky road to financial ruin thru cable purchase

 

I'll have a go now, before Tones, comes out of his hole again to beat me with his patent stick
Depending on your kit, the eupen's (smaller ones) make a nice little difference (for the price) to the sources/pre's, for power amps/ints look else where, The blackcurrent cables get some nice prods in the right direct too.
If you can try a shunyata diamond back, us deal around $120 used, great cable for the cash, and works nicely all round. Arh Tones is still hiding . I'll carry on then.
Omiga audio do a decent cable too, I believe one of 2 members have tried them.
I, would be cautious of the isotek gear, it does remove a lot of shit, but it tends to sqeeze the dynamics quite badly & remove the drive of the music (IMHO).
Just a word of caution though, some cables give an immediate 'Wow' factor, big up the bass/presence, and thicken up the sound, however you need to listen to a 'used one', not a new one (Unless, it's on long term loan or burnt in).
Some cables are subtley different, and you grow accustom to them gradualy, however the crunch comes when you take it out and go back to the one you were previously using, then make your mind up, pair of ears, best technical measuring device in the known world (for Audio evaluation purposes) Wm

 

Impressive forum response already!

Thanks guys (and gals, or is this a male thing).... I see some strong characters emerging already, this is going to be fun.


I like Tones' advice to use the one that comes with the equipment, and existing cables will be used from MiniSub day one. But MiniSub does not come with a cable, so I need to buy ONE aftermarket cable. From comments above, looks like an Audusa, given time to burn in, is fine but sale or return might be tough if they have to wait while I stick 200 hours or so through it.

Tones, you're an independent free-thinking kind of guy.... if you DID need to buy a cable from mains outlet to minisub - or to anything else - what would you buy? Budget lead from Curry's? Or would you be tempted by anything hi-fi-ish?

A bit concerned about the squashed dynamics - had not heard this risk/complaint before. Does anyone out there run a Mini Sub? Happy or not?

Listening and learning.....

 

Re: Impressive forum response already!

Flash, I am the resident heretic, Tones the Unbeliever, who delights in buying stuff just to prove that it does nothing. And so far I have a 100% success rating! (My esteemed colleagues on this forum would probably regard me as a deaf old git - the problem is, they might be right...)

Hopelessly burdened by a technical education and multiple patent attorney qualifications, I simply don't believe in exotic cables or burn-in or squashed dynamics or anything like that. I actually did buy a Eupen to find out whether it did anything, and to my ears it didn't. So, I'd go out and buy something of decent quality, but not a hi-fi one.

This is not to rubbish my colleagues on this forum, who are all splendid chaps often with much more experience in things hi-fi than I. If they said they heard a difference, they heard a difference. Now why they heard a difference and I didn't is a question I can't answer. Ultimately one rule applies; trust your very own ears. They may not be brilliant or particularly discriminating, but they're the only pair you'll ever get and they're the only ones you have to satisfy. So, if the noise of a cable/stand/green pen/whatever pleases you, for whatever reason, that's for you and the rest of the world can take itself to a very hot place indeed.

 

Nice one, Tones! I think they call it healthy scepticism....

 

I used to approach all these things with my sceptic hat on.

Only problem is, Tone (Wadia-Miester, not Tones) has caused me to eat this hat on more than one occasion, so I've given up with that one, and approach it all with an open mind now.

I've presently got an omiga digital cable on loan (something a little bit special I am told, and tone's description of the sound was uncomfortably close to how the system does presently sound...), and that's another thing that isn't "supposed" to make any difference (if you believe the sceptics, that's your cue tones!).

My own opinion is that it depends on your system, situation, ears, etc... I've heard systems where changing interconnects did very little, but changing speaker cables did, and my own system doesn't seem to make much of speaker cables, but interconnects are quite clearly different. I've found my superDAC to be rather sensitive to mains things, and it improved quite significantly on the end of a eupen from my trichord powerblock, as compared to running "plain".

Coming back to the original questions, Eupens do seem to work nicely with digital sources (perhaps not too surprising as the eupen cable was originally designed for medical monitoring equipment, which has similar requirements to a digital source). I'm going to try something a bit beefier for the amp, powerblock, etc. Although I'm probably going to build an amp of some sort fairly soon, so might just hard-wire in a bit of nice cable.