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MO!

MO!

MOnkey`ead!
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Quoted from THIS thread on the HFC forum.

Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2003 7:16 pm Post subject: The missing link?

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Just been testing the new 'toy' (Kenwood Graphic Equaliser) this afternoon.....and damn; I think I may have wasted my money! Not the £16 on the equaliser, but on the £500 amp I acquired this week off Ebay as an upgrade to my existing Kenwood 3030R integrated. I may not have needed it! In fact despite intending to swap over amps today, I was too hooked to the music to change them over.

I decided to test out the eq on my record deck as I felt that could be the source that might benefit most from being 'tweaked' - and boy, was I right! There wasn't a single record I played that didn't sound better than before (at least to my ears) after being routed through the equaliser - and it's easy enough to test - simply by using the eq defeat button. It has given a whole new lease of life to my collection. It simply added a freshness, a vibrancy and a 'rightness' to the whole sound - in fact today, for the first time, the deck actually provided serious competition to my Marantz KI cdp as top source.

And we're not talking 'unnatural' here either (although there's certainly always the 'overkill' settings if you want them). If the music sounds more enjoyable and exciting as a result of being tweaked, is that less natural or more natural (...or does 'natural' even matter any more?) The interesting point is that each record needed it's own little adjustments of the graphic's slider controls to sound it's best. Surely that only highlights anomalies in the recording/production/manufacturing processes - which would suggest it's only sensible to 'equalise' things at the playback stage?

And this doesn't only apply to the budget end of the market either. Even high and mid-range setups can benefit from this equalisation process. How? Because a) You don't have any control over the industry processes just mentioned. And b) How many of us have total control over the acoustic environment of our listening room which, as we all know, has a huge effect on the final sound we hear?

In my opinion, the audiophile 'obsession' with the shortest, cleanest, purest signal path is currently misplaced in this particular area. So the bottom line is...unless you are using an equaliser in your hifi setup, you may never realise the true potential of your hard earned investment...however uncool or embarrassing that might currently sound.
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Click to expand...

So, why are they such a *audiophile* taboo???

The obvious reply is along the lines of "get the kit right in the first place". But as Michael points out, room acoustics and poor recordings are often beyond us and limit our kit from sounding its best.

Surely if they can be done properly without negative effects on the source signal, then why such a no no?

The automatic reply is "pah! No chance", but why? Is t just because no ones managed to design them to a high enough standard? Surely there's got to be some out there.

My limited knowledge of tact gear is that it does pretty much the same but digitaly. Does this overcome the issues?

Sorta seems like the best solution for real world conditions regarding both room and recording quality.

I ask this with an open mind. Please enlighten me.....

MO :D
 
And if you want a real one go for a BEHRINGER

DEQ1024_medium.jpg
 
Originally posted by MO!
My limited knowledge of tact gear is that it does pretty much the same but digitaly. Does this overcome the issues?
Click to expand...
Basicaly, yes. Doing EQ in the digital domain lets you do it with minimal "destructive" effects on the signal that analog EQs typically have (such as phase shift).

However, this guy is suggesting that his EQ "nearly made is TT (sorry, record deck) match his Marantz KI sig as a source" ??? I dread to think what his record deck is :eek:

Still, he has a point. There are doubtless some high end systems that would sound a lot better with an EQ (even a good analog one) than without it because of room resonance issues.

Michael.
 
If your equipment is competent then it will have a nominally flat response. An equaliser cannot fix room issues, if you make it flat on pink noise you will still hear the room when playing music. Which leaves the point of an equaliser to second-guessing the recording engineer. Which is way to hifi-nerdy for me. Are you supposed to play with it for each record? Where do you write down what you used last time you played something? There are audiophools who tweak the VTA on their arm/cart for every LP. Too much missing the point for me.

Digital room fixing systems are a different kettle of EQ. Pointless in my present pov but interesting nonetheless.

Paul
 
Not sure if fish do makes pink noise or not. However, Pink Noise is the signal used to test speakers and set equalization in theaters and other venues. When you tune up your home multimedia system, the noise used to drive the speakers for the volume settings is probably pink noise.

Pink noise has equal energy per octave instead of equal energy per frequency like white noise. In other words, its energy is equal to 1/f, which describes a -3dB/octave response. This means that each octave of increasing frequency should contain half the power of the preceding one.

This 'nerd' :bookworm: answer is from the link below.

http://www.embedded.com/2000/0003/0003spectra.htm
 
I thought another difference potentially is that Tact and possibly others can do correction in the time domain as well. Is this not so?

SteveC
 
mo....glad to see you are discovering something new....modern music can be recorded with loads of studio tools and some of those can be useful in listening....compression is used as singers have poor technique, and it gives a consistent level, eq ...graphic or parametric to make it sound good..., reverb, delay, all sorts of time based effects....


it is audio snobbery tho' to not put something in, and IMHO, really doesn't make that much difference...if you like it better use it...

I tell you what you really need..wait for it...a pychoacoustic enhancer....usually, these use upto 3 techniques, and they can really do wonders...

firstly is harmonic generation....modern recording techniques kill upper frequencies, so they can be restored by this...

2nd...a bit of careful dynamic eq...this is slightly different to a regular eq...

3...frequency dependant phase shifting...this can compensate for speakers and room, and really helps on bass,

at a budget level, you can pick them up for about £70 these makes...afex, behringer again!!, spl, and bbe..I am after one., you will never listen without one again!!
 
Originally posted by Paul Ranson
If your equipment is competent then it will have a nominally flat response. An equaliser cannot fix room issues, if you make it flat on pink noise you will still hear the room when playing music.
Click to expand...
An equaliser can compensate for room issues at the bass end. That is, it can reduce the peaks. Filling in the troughs is much more difficult. Such compensation will only work for a particular listening position. Also, the peaks are generally quite high Q (sharp) so digital or parametric equalisation is required.

I agree though that trying to equalize for the room at higher frequencies does much more harm than good so to improve the room above the bass you have to treat it acoustically.

Even for the bass, acoustic treatment should come before equalisation but this sometimes takes up too much space.
 
Im wondering at the quality of his phono stage..

theres something very wrong with his TT setup if a basic marantz cdp beats it hands down IMO.

I suspect he's using the inbuilt phono stage in a basic amp, and if I knew him would suggest an audition of a project phono stage - - the equaliser might then end up back on e-bay!

All guess work mind you, as I dont know his setup.

Chris
 
A good point, bottleneck. I upgraded from a basic B-Tech phono stage (bought in a hurry when I got my AV receiver at Richers) to a Pro-Ject Phono Box. A vast improvement on sound - to the point where I was playing more vinyl than CDs, until I upgraded my CDP.
 
EQ's are fun, erveryone should have one stuck in their tape loop for those times when they want to enjoy their whole music collection rather than critique a small selection.

Valve EQ's are great toys BTW:D
 
An equaliser can compensate for room issues at the bass end.
Click to expand...
I'd rather not try so hard at the bass end. Use small sealed box speakers and just get on with it....

I'd not live with system that required an Aural Exciter to keep me attentive. Homonymics on the sofa are an entirely different matter though.

Paul
 
I don't mind the idea of an EQ.

Trouble is every recording as we know is very different, and I think the EQ would detract from musical enjoyment as you woul dneed to adjust it every time a new CD/Vinyl went on, this would in the end become I am sure very frustrating.

Best left.
 
Originally posted by garyi
I don't mind the idea of an EQ.

Trouble is every recording as we know is very different, and I think the EQ would detract from musical enjoyment as you woul dneed to adjust it every time a new CD/Vinyl went on, this would in the end become I am sure very frustrating.

Best left.
Click to expand...

I agree. Get it sounding roughly how you want it (EQ or not) and then leave it alone. Too much fannying around otherwise...
 
Garry i live next door to Mike. and got the 10 band Realistic EQ off him. it made a nice difference, but Mike has now got a PIONEER GR-777 remote controlled job, it has 5 preset + 5 user programmable settings + each frequency can be adjusted from the comfort of your armchair. so this solves the problem of having to jump up and down to your hifi. i dare say there are even more flexible models available.

you can buy them for peanuts nowadays. check out EBAY.COM as well as co uk, but you'll need dual voltage if buying from USA

Mike now has a £3k system and reckons the EQ is easily the best sound per pound upgrade he has done so far. :respect:
 
Hi Bear! Welcome to the forum :D

We've got a technobear here already. Related? Or are you closer to that dirty wee c#nt on BO Salacta?

How are you finding the eq in your set up?
 

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