Integrated Amp/Reverberator Connections

Discussion in 'Hi-Fi and General Audio' started by Confused Old Man, Jul 24, 2022.

  1. Confused Old Man

    Confused Old Man

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    Hopefully I'm posting this in the correct location. If not, please feel free to move it.

    I just purchased a silver S-A1200 Yamaha integrated amp. to replace my old Kenwood KA-501 integrated amp that I purchased new many moons ago. I wanted things to still look vintage. The Kenwood still worked well, but the pots needed frequent cleaning. I have also owned a Pioneer SR-303 reverberator since new too. With my old KA-501 Kenwood integrated amp, the SR-303 could be used with all of my components (turntable (JVC QL-Y5F), tuner (Kenwood KT-815), CD player (New Rotel CD 14MKII) and purchased new JVC KD-A33 tape deck).

    With my new Yamaha integrated amp, the Pioneer reverberator only works with the tape deck. Visually, it appears to be working with all of the components (puzzling?), but there is only audible reverberation with the tape deck.

    In my old age, I could be missing something. I've tried switching my connections, but that lost me what I had.

    Right now, I have the reverberator inputs going to the amp's line 2 out terminals. Its outputs are going to the amp's line 2 input terminals.

    The reverb's record connections are going to the tape deck's line in (rec) connections. Its play connections are going to the tape deck's line out (play) terminals.

    I've considered using the amp's pre-out and main in terminals, but Yamaha has said about the pre-out and main in terminals is as follows:

    "You cannot use the MAIN IN jack or the PRE-OUT for your application. And you will damage the A-S1200 if you use these connections for this purpose.

    Modern units do not have Tape Monitor feature which is needed for your Reverb unit to affect all inputs.

    It just can't be done." They suggest "... to use the Reverb is by connecting it in line between one of your sources and one of the Line/CD/Tuner inputs on the A-S1200." Is that not what I'm doing now? Also, does that mean that the reverb will only work with the component that it is in line with? Why does everything work visually?

    Any help you can offer will be greatly appreciated.

    Thanks

    Confused Old Man
     
    Confused Old Man, Jul 24, 2022
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    ductingtapes likes this.
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  2. Confused Old Man

    Sergeauckland

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    I've looked at the manuals for the SR-303 and the Yamaha S-A1200 amplifier. It look very much like Yamaha are right, insofar as the Pre-out and Main-In aren't usable in the way you need to.

    On the Yamaha, the Pre-out follows whatever source is selected, so far so good. However, the main-in is only available if you select it on the input selector, thus disconnecting all other sources. It presupposes you're using an external pre-amp and using the S-A1200 just as a power amp.

    As is now common on modern amplifiers, there's no tape monitor path, as otherwise you could have used that.

    Sadly, I can think of no easy way to use the reverb amp in your system, except on one source.

    S.
     
    Sergeauckland, Jul 25, 2022
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  3. Confused Old Man

    Confused Old Man

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    Sergeauckland,

    Thanks for your reply.

    That is unfortunate.

    Things that still puzzle me are that with the SR-303, it is obviously, by its light array and control knobs, processing the signal and responding to the dial settings with the turntable. the tuner and the CD player. It just won't apply those signal changes to the audio output of anything but the tape deck.

    Also, the SR-303 has its own tape monitor switch/circuitry, so why does the Yamaha need it too?

    We use CDs more than any other media. Are you saying that things could be set up to apply a controllable reverberated signal to the CD player and still have the the turntable, the tuner and the tape deck work without reverberation? If yes, how would I wire things to do that?

    Thanks and stay safe and healthy!

    Confused Old Man
     
    Confused Old Man, Jul 25, 2022
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  4. Confused Old Man

    Sergeauckland

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    If you want to use the Reverb unit for CDs, just connect the CD output to the Reverb unit's inputs, and the Reverb unit's output to the Yamaha's CD inputs. That way, all CD signals will be go through the reverb unit, everything else is left unprocessed.

    The Reverb unit spec allows for 2V input, and CD players normally don't exceed a 2V output, so you should be OK. If there's distortion, you may need to use an attenuator going into the reverb unit.

    As to the tape loop, this disconnects the source selector part of the preamp from the tone and volume controls. The tape out gets whatever signal is selected, whilst listening is done from the tape monitor input, so you can listen to source or off-tape.

    The Reverb unit has a tape loop, as if you use the amplifier's tape loop and have a tape recorder, the reverb unit's tape loop can be used instead.

    As your new amplifier doesn't have a tape loop, or even a tape out, you can't use this possibility.

    I think your only sensible option. is to use the reverb unit on only one input. If you really need the reverb on all inputs, then you'll have to buy another amplifier with a tape loop, or buy a separate pre-amp and use your Yamaha as a power amp only.

    Progress, eh?

    S.
     
    Sergeauckland, Jul 26, 2022
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  5. Confused Old Man

    Confused Old Man

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    Sergeauckland,

    Thanks again for the valuable information.

    To say the least, my research sucked. I wanted something silver, new and reliable, that looked vintage and that would outlast me (I'm 73). I, to save space, cut my system in half. It used to have two turntables, the Kenwood KA-501 integrated amp, the Kenwood KT-815 tuner, a JVC XL-V2500 BK CD player, a JVC SAE-R7 equalizer/reverberator, the JVC KDA-33 tape deck, a second JVC tape deck (KD-W7), a Sony SB 3335 system selector, a Marantz 140 Power Amp and a Marantz 3200 pre-amp. I also had a lightly used Marantz 2238 receiver in hand. I'm now thinking that I should have just had my old components serviced. Now, I'll just put the old components up for sale.

    I did a lot of looking to find an integrated amp,in my price range, that had terminals for my two sets of speakers. I never thought much about the tape connections other than confirming that the Yamaha had one set. I only replaced the CD player to get a silver one. My eyes don't read the writing on black components very well anymore. Now everything is silver.

    I guess I could use the Marantz pre-amp, but I just don't have space for it now. So, at this point, I'll likely leave things as they are and only reverberate the tape's output.

    Thanks and stay safe and healthy!

    Confused Old Man
     
    Confused Old Man, Jul 26, 2022
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  6. Confused Old Man

    lawrence001

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    If you want to understand what's happening now, it's because your old amp had a tape monitor function, this allows you to select a source like CD which goes out of the tape out sockets, but overrides the output of the amp from CD (still selected as source) to tape in. This function allowed users recording to tape to hear what the actual recording sounds like in real-time (if they have a 3 head tape deck so the recorded signal passes over the playback head after the erase and record heads). They can then adjust level, bias etc while recording so they don't end up with a duff recording but only find out afterwards.

    This functionality has a cost and tape recordings are not common any more, so to reduce the cost (or increase quality for a given price, or just improve the firm's margins, take your pick!) it is usually dropped these days. (Although compact cassette has some retro interest, and reel to reel is making a comeback in a niche group of audiophiles, so some niche amps still have the functionality.)

    There is another option which is to use a small source selector box before your reverberator and use that to select the source. Then use the tape in of your amp to input the signal. I'll have a look at some options for you.
     
    lawrence001, Aug 2, 2022
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  7. Confused Old Man

    lawrence001

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    lawrence001, Aug 2, 2022
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  8. Confused Old Man

    Confused Old Man

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    lawrence001,

    Thanks for your replies.

    My only interest was for playback with all components. I doubt that I will ever want to tape anything anymore. We have MANY tapes that I recorded on high end Maxell (sp) blank tapes years ago that still play like the day I made them and they would be the only tapes I will be playing.

    It is still puzzling to me that the Pioneer reverberator has a tape monitor circuit and that it, on a couple of it's settings, visually shows that it is receiving/processing a signal. That signal is, however, not outputted. If it can output the tape's signal, why can't it output the signal from the other components that are going through it?

    Right now, to keep things simplified and to keep them so that my wife can use the system too, I think I will just use things as they are.

    Stay safe and healthy!

    Confused Old Man
     
    Confused Old Man, Aug 2, 2022
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  9. Confused Old Man

    ductingtapes

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    really interesting info
     
    ductingtapes, Aug 3, 2022
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