It all falls to bits ...

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firestorm

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I don't really have much opportunity to turn it loud, but when it is loud and the music is complex, it tends to sound incoherent. Conversely when it is really quiet, the music is lifeless all round, no bass, no mid and no top. Mid-level volume on simple material sounds the best. Even mid-level complex material isn't too clever.

Where do you think the issue lies ?

Its on many sorts of music, from my CDP or SB3. It doesn't happen so readily if at all on my headphones, AKG701 and a DAC headphone amp (Musiland MD10), so I summise it is likely to be NAC62, NAP110, Dynaudio 52 or room. Also it could be the SB3 and CDP, as I use the DAC via usb from my laptop.
 
It could be your room rather than the electronics. Wrong size, wrong shape, too many or not enough furnishings etc.
 
I'd point the finger at the speakers, as the Naims have no obvious weakness and all but the cheapest CD players and dacs put in a decent performance these days.
All speakers have an optimum listening window - some wider than others.

Try a home demo of alternative speakers.
 
firestorm said:
I don't really have much opportunity to turn it loud, but when it is loud and the music is complex, it tends to sound incoherent. Conversely when it is really quiet, the music is lifeless all round, no bass, no mid and no top. Mid-level volume on simple material sounds the best. Even mid-level complex material isn't too clever.

Where do you think the issue lies ?

Its on many sorts of music, from my CDP or SB3. It doesn't happen so readily if at all on my headphones, AKG701 and a DAC headphone amp (Musiland MD10), so I summise it is likely to be NAC62, NAP110, Dynaudio 52 or room. Also it could be the SB3 and CDP, as I use the DAC via usb from my laptop.
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I've owned the Dynaudio 52 and contour 1.3, with a Naim cd3.5, 102 preamp/highcap and 180 power amp. The sound you describe is very similar to the results I got.

Buy some cheap Kef coda 7's/8's from Ebay and I bet you prefer the sound. Obviously there are loads of options for better speakers, but I know this combination works really well. Also the speakers are cheap and you wont lose any money if you decide to upgrade. Being sensitive, they work well at low volumes too.
 
Nando, I don't understand what you mean

Rob, Matt - both of you suspect the speakers, Rodrat says room. I think you're right. The speakers are not working well in my room. I remember the speakers were great when I tried them out at the dealer, on similar amplification, it was 112 and NAP150 and a CD5. The floor area was nearly twice the size with carpet on a solid floor, probably concrete. My room is wood laminate on suspended wooden floorboards. May be thats it.

I've had a pair of Linn Saras, they were awful, rough top end, recessed mid and flabby bass, a total contrast to Linn Kanns my friend brought round, although I found them quite lacking in bass, what was there was good.

Matt, do you know why the Codas work better and why the Dyns do not (in your room)?
 
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firestorm said:
Nando, I don't understand what you mean

Rob, Matt - both of you suspect the speakers, Rodrat says room. I think you're right. The speakers are not working well in my room. I remember the speakers were great when I tried them out at the dealer, on similar amplification, it was 112 and NAP150 and a CD5. The floor area was nearly twice the size with carpet on a solid floor, probably concrete. My room is wood laminate on suspended wooden floorboards. May be thats it.
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Where are they sited in the room, and how are they supported?
 
Speakers on Atacama stands filled with sand, either side of a chimney breast, about 190cm apart, toed-in 5 degrees ish, 2.2m from couch. Speakers about 50cm from back of wall. Stands are on spike which are resting on coins.

Large window to right, about 1.6m from couch. Through dining room to the left, which extends another 4m from couch. So Not ideal, but its what I have to work with ;-) Ceiling is about 2.5m
 
firestorm said:
Speakers on Atacama stands filled with sand, either side of a chimney breast, about 190cm apart, toed-in 5 degrees ish, 2.2m from couch. Speakers about 50cm from back of wall. Stands are on spike which are resting on coins.

Large window to right, about 1.6m from couch. Through dining room to the left, which extends another 4m from couch. So Not ideal, but its what I have to work with ;-) Ceiling is about 2.5m
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Can you try moving them 1 metre away from the rear wall? They have rear ports, do they not?

You might also increase the toe-in. 5 deg. is not much.
 
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Unfortunately the room is only 3.4 x 4.0m, it'll mean the speakers will be almost on the middle of the room, I can try it to see if it improves matters though. The toe-in won't be a problem though.
 
firestorm said:
Unfortunately the room is only 3.4 x 4.0m, it'll mean the speakers will be almost on the middle of the room, I can try it to see if it improves matters though. The toe-in won't be a problem though.
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Even if they end up in an impossible position, at least you might find the source of the problem. You might toe in enough to get the tweeters pointing right at your ears, just for the moment.
 
Yep- toe in the speakers and try bunging up the ports A LITTLE to see if that makes a difference. Try foam or anything similar.
 
simple to check ...used head phones to eliminate the room interactions ....or beg borrow etc a behringer 2496 and mic ..

if your in or near the midlands pm me ....just noticed your in london ..but hey if you want to borrow the kit its not that far ...if not contact tenson

my guess is that everyone is partially right ....they all play a part in the final sound
 
Can you borow/buy a rug app. 2x2 m. and put it on the floor in front of the speakers? It should be a thick woolen one, not synthetic. I had some horrible reflections once from a wooden floor, and a rug from John Lewis worked a treat.
 
Well - I had my suspicions, everyone has confirmed them. The sound is much better using my K701. I have moved the speakers forward another 50cm, I've found that has cured mid bass boom and for some music, the soundscape is projected better, but the thing still struggles with comlex material and it still lifeless at low volumes.

I've had my eye on a DEQ2496 for a while now and I got one from the bay earlier today. The ECM8000 mic I was tracking was snapped up by someone yeterday. I've pushed the boat out already buying the DEQ, swmbo doesn't know yet .... I'll have to flog some of my other toys to cover it me thinks ;-)

Can any one lend me an ECM8000 or similar for a week or so ? :-)
 
a rug ? I had one of those, had to throw it out whilst my son was learning to be without nappies ! Should've rolled it up before.... At that time the speakers were on a shelf, about 3ft above ear height, it was awful. The sound was even worse.
 
firestorm said:
Well - I had my suspicions, everyone has confirmed them. The sound is much better using my K701. I have moved the speakers forward another 50cm, I've found that has cured mid bass boom and for some music, the soundscape is projected better, but the thing still struggles with comlex material and it still lifeless at low volumes.
Click to expand...
I can't help feeling that the problem lies in the power supply. Quality gear like this (even Naim :D) should not sound actually bad. Just cleaning the mains fuse pins (if present) with Brasso may make a difference. And Kontak will make contact.
 

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