Just ordered a Dynavector DV-17D3...

[Joolsburger]

Checked it again last night and there is a gap of about 2 rizlas thickness between the cartridge body and the record unless I raise the arm lots (which is wrong) based on your picture your cart has about 5 times the clearance. I spoke to the distributor yesterday and it's going back to Japan.
Sodding thing.

 

[Dom_]

Remember that the stylus should be at 90 degrees to the record not the cartridge or arm for the correct VTA.

 

[Joolsburger]

I've set mine up so that the top of the cartridge body is parallel to the record, I've also raise the arm arm very high at the back so there is a pronounced slope toward the cartridge in both cases the cartridge is lacking clearance. I think best to send it off and see what DV have to say.

 

[Joolsburger]

I've decided I'm actually quite pissed off about this. My First DV 17 bought about 9 months ago was replaced due to the complete loss of one channel and now it seems the suspension has collapsed on this one after 3 months. Perhaps I'm just unlucky but I think QC could be a bit tighter.

 

[dunkyboy]

Hmm, not very promising! Hoping mine will fare better... Maybe that's something they've improved in the Mk. III?

Latest update: all is still sounding good, but I still think the bias setting is too low, despite being maxed out. I'm getting a sharp distortion in the right channel on peaks at certain upper-mid frequencies (Ella's voice for instance, and Miles' trumpet - so not ideal!) and I think this is the cause.

Quick question for ye vinyl gurus: how important is the overhang setting? I didn't take that into account when aligning the cart, and I discovered last night that it's too far forward by 5-10mm. In my thoroughly non-scientific imagination, I guess that would mean the inward skating force would be stronger, thus requiring more bias than normal... is that right or am I making things up?

Anyway, next time I get the chance I'll realign at the correct overhang setting, and if necessary try reducing the tracking weight until I can get the bias to be sufficient. Now it's run in a bit I also reckon it could benefit from a tad more sparkle in the upper frequencies, which I think lowering the VTF ought to provide.

Dunc

 

[Gromit]

Just fitted Lefty's old DV17D2 - first things first, it sounds bloody marvellous. Great match for the Spacedeck, with plenty of bite. Good bass too.

As to the ground clearance issue - this is how mine's sitting at 1.9g...

No problems riding warps (I tried it on a couple of my warpiest records) and running in a silent groove on a test lp the thing tracks quiet as a mouse.

I'm not overly worried about it.

 

[Uncle Ants]

It looks lovely Dunc, regarding the test tracks. Its perfectly normal for even very good cartridges to start to buzz on the 3rd track, only exceptional trackers won't and it says nothing about how they sound. Its got to buzz on at least one of the tracks or how else would you set the anti skate?

Overhang? Very important. If you used a two point protractor though and aligned it on both grids, then overhang will be correct. Two point alignment ensures correct overhang in other words.

 

[dunkyboy]

It looks lovely

Why yes, yes it does. Actually, I think it looks a bit bulky & wide on the Rega arm - I've seen it on an SME V and it seemed better suited visually. Still a lovely cart.

Dunc, regarding the test tracks. Its perfectly normal for even very good cartridges to start to buzz on the 3rd track, only exceptional trackers won't and it says nothing about how they sound. Its got to buzz on at least one of the tracks or how else would you set the anti skate?

Good point!

Overhang? Very important. If you used a two point protractor though and aligned it on both grids, then overhang will be correct. Two point alignment ensures correct overhang in other words.

Hmm, well I used the two-point protractor that comes with the HFN Test Record, and I got it as dead-on as I could. Thought I did a better job than with my previous cart anyway! But when I measured the overhang, it looked to be a good few mm off, going by the overhang of 17.2mm, as listed here for the Rega arm: http://www.tonearm.co.uk/faq-tonearms-frequently-asked-questions.htm#specifications

Am I wrong in thinking overhang is the distance between the spindle and the stylus tip when he arm is swung over the spindle?

Dunc

P.S. - Thanks for the advice! I really like the look of your store and were it not for the excellent (and longstanding) relationship I have with my local dealer I would certainly have ordered from you. Well, if you stocked Dynavector, ZYX, or Lyra that is.

 

[Uncle Ants]

P.S. - Thanks for the advice! I really like the look of your store and were it not for the excellent (and longstanding) relationship I have with my local dealer (Retro Reproduction) I would certainly have ordered from you. Well, if you stocked Dynavector, ZYX, or Lyra that is.

Oh aye, well yes if they would let me stock em. Too high fallutin' for mere internet stockists We're all just box shifters after all eh

I don't know is the answer to the overhang ... I mean I know what it is (its what you said), but don't understand how it can be fixed as stated by arm makers as its going to depend on which alignemnt you chose, but thinking about it if you aligned with a two point protractor the overhang is what the overhang is. Align it on two points, now move the cart back or forward ... and it'll no longer be aligned on the two points. Of course choose a different alignment and it'll be different

I've always assumed that the overhang figure given was for use with one point alignment protractors specifically made for an arm ... I would love to be enlightened though.

 

[dunkyboy]

Oh aye, well yes if they would let me stock em. Too high fallutin' for mere internet stockists We're all just box shifters after all eh

I never suspected it was out of choice. You'd think the more high-falutin' manufacturers would be open to appeal, whereby you could demonstrate the quality and value of your online shop over the usual box-shifters, rather than just putting a blanket ban on online shops. Sigh.

I don't know is the answer to the overhang ... I mean I know what it is (its what you said), but don't understand how it can be fixed as stated by arm makers as its going to depend on which alignemnt you chose, but thinking about it if you aligned with a two point protractor the overhang is what the overhang is. Align it on two points, now move the cart back or forward ... and it'll no longer be aligned on the two points. Of course choose a different alignment and it'll be different

I've always assumed that the overhang figure given was for use with one point alignment protractors specifically made for an arm ... I would love to be enlightened though.

Hmm. Well, I've got a Rega-specific one-point alignment protractor that came with the arm, so I could maybe try that instead, and set the overhang to 17.2mm... Dunno if I can be arsed with that much fiddling though!

Whatever I do, I need to figure out some way to set the bias right, so I guess I'll have to experiment a bit...

Dunc

 

[dunkyboy]

Next time I get the chance I'll have to try playing Eternal Life once from cold and again after a couple hours' listening to other things - see if there's a noticeable difference...

Did the experiment last night. Put Eternal Life on first thing back from work. Sounded perhaps better than first thing in the morning, but not what I'd heard late at night. So I cranked up the heating and left it playing with the volume way down for a couple hours while I mucked about on the puter, went for a run, had dinner, etc.

Came back, gave Eternal Life another spin and hey presto - gorgeous, groovy sounds! So mystery solved (to some extent). Moral of the story: keep yer Karats toasty gentlemen!

Dunc

 

[Uncle Ants]

I never suspected it was out of choice. You'd think the more high-falutin' manufacturers would be open to appeal, whereby you could demonstrate the quality and value of your online shop over the usual box-shifters, rather than just putting a blanket ban on online shops. Sigh.

Well every now and again one trys and every now and again one has success. To be honest the quantities of high end catridges one can sell online is pretty small, so I don't lose too much sleep ... I'm way too busy shifting boxes of Chinese record players at the moment to worry

Hmm. Well, I've got a Rega-specific one-point alignment protractor that came with the arm, so I could maybe try that instead, and set the overhang to 17.2mm... Dunno if I can be arsed with that much fiddling though!

Whatever I do, I need to figure out some way to set the bias right, so I guess I'll have to experiment a bit...

Dunc

Different alignments will suit dependent on what sort of music listened to and how long a record is. Its a compromise. It can only be perfectly aligned with zero tracking error in two places. Where you choose those two places is a matter for debate over what is best ... which is why we have Stevenson, Bearwald, Loefgren etc. Different alignments, different compromises. Some go for minimising tracking error on average across the disc, others on minimising it toward end of side at the expense of more error early on the record or in the middle. Most just use Baerwald and be damned (or whatever alignment, whatever protractor they have is).

The Chpratz protractor over on Vinyl Engine is worth a mess with. It doesn't state where your alignment points are specifically, but will tell you how much tracking eror your current alignment will give you along the arc of the stylus.

 

[Joolsburger]

Now Gromit that's more like mine in fact virtually identical ride height almost touching but not quite. - Compared with the other pic in this thread it's riding much lower. Now I have to wonder if it's a problem or a natural consequence of use and settling.

I must admit it sounds good but obviously I wonder if it could / should sound better.

Maybe I wont send it back but the distributor says it should ride higher.

Even more bloody confused now! Thoughts chaps? My dealer is happy to give me a loaner while mine goes off to Japan but I don't want the hassle if that kind of clearance is normal. Anyone else got one to compare?

 

[Uncle Ants]

I have no specific DV 17 experience but that does look very low indeed. Don't these thing have very short cantilevers? Maybe its something they changed from 2 to 3. That said, I've seen a fair few carts in my time, but never seen one riding quite that low.

 

[dunkyboy]

Does your dealer have a dem model? Maybe you could check that out and see how high it's riding?

On the other hand, maybe the Mk. III just has a stiffer suspension than the Mk. II? I know the output is increased, so they could also have lowered the compliance for whatever reason....

The Karats do have very short cantilevers, but mine rides with a couple mm of clearance. I'll be sure to report if mine starts to sag with use (snigger ).

Dunc

 

[Joolsburger]

I have mailed both pics to my dealer and await his view with interest. My main concern is mine looked more like pic 1 when I got it and now looks like pic 2!

 

[Gromit]

Jools - will be interested to hear what your dealer has to say.

Mine's been playing away most of the afternoon and hasn't skipped or missed a beat for a second. I'm really not worried about it tbh - a Decca also rides very low (less than 1mm) although perhaps not quite as low as the DV17.

In Dunky's pictures his cart's cantilever looks as though it's at virtually 45deg which would normally be considered too high an angle; I really wonder, as Jools has said, if these things do settle a bit over time?

The cantilever is incredibly short though - believe it's 1.7mm so for it to manage a reasonably sensible VTA the cartridge is bound, to a certain extenet, to ride extremely low.

 

[Joolsburger]

I must say it's perfect for the NAS even if it's half cocked it's still the best my system has ever sounded. I think binning the Xerxes for the Spacedeck has perhaps made my system less hifi (maybe not all strands not quite so seperated) but my goodness listen to that music! And the bass, well don't even get me started - after 10 years of "dry" bass I know realise that "dry" actually means crap/none.

I've been over to AA and a few DV's run low over there too with no ill effects it would seem. Perhaps making a big deal over nothing but Derek at Infidelity is a good guy and I think he won't steer me wrong.

In regard to set up I used the 2 point doo dad that comes with the HFN-RR test record and it's fine. Overhang is not worth worrying about - if you've aligned both grids all will be well, your cartridge is set up. I find that at 2.1g (ish) everything works well for me and mine can track the 4th cut of the bias test- it buzzes but it makes it! - 3rd test is silent! In fact that's the odd thing my test record and my ears are telling me that my cartridge is a superstar but seeing that mk3 has made me ask questions!

You just have to love TT's - such tweakabilty!!

 

[Gromit]

I must say it's perfect for the NAS even if it's half cocked it's still the best my system has ever sounded.

I'd echo those experiences here.

Just been listening to Schumman Piano Concerto - where before the piece ticked along nicely, everything in its place, there's now real drama - the building and easing of tension is so much more obvious with the DV. On other stuff it does the toe-tapping groovy thing really well yet doesn't ram it down one's throat.

From Bob Florence Big-Band music (the DV just loves this stuff - it's got real energy and power) through Back in Black to Henry Purcell... loving it

Jools - do you have a link to any of the DV discussions on AA? I've never been on there myself. Thanks.

 

[Stuart]

Hi,

No pics I'm afraid, however, my 17D2 looks like Gromit's pic when playing ie. stuff all gap between body and record. Plays well, sounds great, not fussed by warps. Dunc's pic looks like the VTA is wrong - I reckon the arm ought to be lowered at the pivot.

Regards,

Stuart.