long runs - i/c, spkr cables

lAmBoY

lAmBoY

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oh my, it has been a few years since I posted on this site, not even been lurking:( I remember the zerogain days and even the hifichoice forum days.....but I digress. On to the question:

Is it OK to use 5m or more to run a phono lead from the back of the panny TV to the bel canto amp? can anyone recommend a decent and cheap lead? say 50 - 100 squid?

I also need spkr cables - ive just moved house and had to leave my 'anticables' back at the old gaff as it was routed under the flooring.

...I promise I will return to the fold as soon as my kids have stopped draining my hifi funds.

ta very much
 
I use one of these to link my TV to my amp.

http://www.maplin.co.uk/stereo-hi-fi-phono-leads-35898

For the money it's not bad.

Obviously you can get something much better for £50-£100 but at less than £20 who's complaining. Richer sounds used to do a price/meter on the Cambridge Audio range of interconnects. I don't know if they still do this though.

The Chord Crimson might come under your budget and gets great reviews. I usually buy my interconnects 2nd hand on ebay and have picked up some mega bargains in the past.
 
The Maplin cables will be fine for the job.

For speaker cable, Maplin also do a 79 strand which is fine.
If you want something that looks nicer yet won't break the bank, look for Canare cable. Lots of online sources.

I remember the zerogain days and even the hifichoice forum days.
Click to expand...

Choice was the first ever forum I used.
Good days and a long time ago.
 
Something I wish more HiFi people would understand:- 5m long cables ane NOT long. 1000m is long, even 100m is long. 5-10m is NOT long.

Unless it's the cable from cartridge to phono stage, or from an unbuffered valve output to power amp, all modern equipments send from a very low output impedance, typically 50-500 ohms, and receive into a high impedance, typically 10k-100k. Those impedances can handle almost any sensible length of cable.

As to loudspeakers, the ONLY thing that matters with most amnplifier sis the toal loop resistance. One notmally needs 'speaker cables of resistance less than 10% and ideally less than 5% of the loudspeaker's minimum impedance. This means in oractice that even using 15 amp mains cable, let alone some of the silly HiFi cables, 10s of metres can be used before it becomes an issue.

Domestic length cables are NOT LONG!

S.
 
Something I wish more HiFi people would understand:- 5m long cables are NOT long. 1000m is long, even 100m is long. 5-10m is NOT long.

Unless it's the cable from cartridge to phono stage, or from an unbuffered valve output to power amp, all modern equipments send from a very low output impedance, typically 50-500 ohms, and receive into a high impedance, typically 10k-100k. Those impedances can handle almost any sensible length of cable.

As to loudspeakers, the ONLY thing that matters with most amplifiers is the total loop resistance. One normally needs 'speaker cables of resistance less than 10% and ideally less than 5% of the loudspeaker's minimum impedance. This means in practice that even using 15 amp mains cable, let alone some of the silly HiFi cables, 10s of metres can be used before it becomes an issue.

Domestic length cables are NOT LONG!

S.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
You do need to say these things twice..............

........... and even then some don't listen :-)
 
re: "Domestic length cables are NOT LONG!"

I've read that over 5m with an optical cable can cause problems. I might need 8, and that seems to require buying a 10m cable. Anyone know if this is likely to cause problems? Ta.
 
gargal said:
re: "Domestic length cables are NOT LONG!"

I've read that over 5m with an optical cable can cause problems. I might need 8, and that seems to require buying a 10m cable. Anyone know if this is likely to cause problems? Ta.
Click to expand...

My experience is that results depend on the intensity of the beam and the sensitivity of the receiver. I've run a 10m cable fine from a Dacmagic but the same cable hasn't worked at all with a Airport Express. The beam intensity was noticeably reduced on the AE.

Probably just have to experiment I'm afraid.
 
RobHolt said:
My experience is that results depend on the intensity of the beam and the sensitivity of the receiver. I've run a 10m cable fine from a Dacmagic but the same cable hasn't worked at all with a Airport Express. The beam intensity was noticeably reduced on the AE.

Probably just have to experiment I'm afraid.
Click to expand...

Thanks. Reports on-line seemed variable too, but I wasn't sure if this was down to quality of cable, how it was laid out... who knows?

I was hoping to run an out from a PC's optical out, over to a DAC by my amp which is receiving other inputs. I can't experiment as I've not bought the PC or DAC yet, and may not if this doesn't seem likely to work.

It seems that there are length limits for USB cables too.

Anyone know the best way to get music data 10 meters from a PC?
 
gargal said:
Thanks. Reports on-line seemed variable too, but I wasn't sure if this was down to quality of cable, how it was laid out... who knows?

I was hoping to run an out from a PC's optical out, over to a DAC by my amp which is receiving other inputs. I can't experiment as I've not bought the PC or DAC yet, and may not if this doesn't seem likely to work.

It seems that there are length limits for USB cables too.

Anyone know the best way to get music data 10 meters from a PC?
Click to expand...

S-PDIF is good for a lot more than that depending on cable losses, but 30m is typical.

S.
 
Sergeauckland said:
S-PDIF is good for a lot more than that depending on cable losses, but 30m is typical.

S.
Click to expand...

So s-pdif is different to optical outputs from a CD, and will be able to go longer? (sorry - novice at this stuff).

Sorry for going OT, but I have one more question: does anyone have recommendations for a good DAC with multiple inputs? I'd like an s-pdif for my PC, an optical for a DEQ, and a vcoaxial input for DVD/blu-ray in the future. I guess spares would be great too!

I've been surprised by how many DACs only seem to have a couple of inputs, but maybe I'm unusual in wanting more.
 
10m is fine for optical SPDIF, you can use an "AV" type cable like this http://www.lindy.co.uk/premium-gold-toslink-spdif-digital-optical-cable-10m/37986.html
It's not "audiophile" cable (as if there's any such thing - a discussion for another thread perhaps...) but I used one between a CD transport and DAC with no problems.
Suitable DAC with lots of inputs - I'd suggest that something like the CA Dacmagic or Beresford Bushman is more than adequate. There are many expensive DACs around what with the current popularity of streaming but some at the lower end of the market are rather good.
I say this as a previous owner of several, including a rather expensive - but also rather good - dpa reference DAC in another life :-)
 
Thanks.

Neil said:
It's not "audiophile" cable (as if there's any such thing
Click to expand...

This is the trouble with hi-fi stuff. There seems to be a lot of quackery, with supposedly authoritative sources making claims which would seem to be physically impossible, and then even when testing things one-self, it's impossible to know whether one is being suckered by the placebo effect of expensive looking boxes.

In addition, the sort of hi-fi one wants for extensive home-listening might not be the same as that which sound most impressive when trying equipment out... the physcial properties of one's room make such a bit impact... how different speakers/amps/sources/etc interact matters a lot...

it's a nightmare!

There's a discussion with Stanley Beresford about the Bushmaster here:

http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=14017&page=115

There's some mention of problems occurring when multiple sources are available. As that's a situation likely to be common for me, this might not be the ideal DAC until those problems are resolved.

He did mention that most DACs only go to 20hz, while his goes lower (down to 0hz apparently), and I'd just been lusting after a sub from SVS which goes to 18hz. Mmmmm... too low to hear.

I don't think that DAC magic is right for me.

I had thought the M-DAC was a good fit, but then I realised that I'd misread the price, and it's £600 not £300. Curses.

I seems like DACs are progressing rapidly at the moment. If Moore's law kicks in, I should be able to get an M-DAC equivalent soon!

I might keep my eyes peeled for a bargain, and then assume I'll be able to get something better in a couple of years time.

Thanks for the advice.
 
The claim regarding most dacs not going below 20Hz is quite wrong. The reverse is true - and most are flat down to around 5Hz.

Personally I'd just go for the Dacmagic Plus which is well thought out and well engineered (and goes down to DC).
The older discontinued Dacmagic is also fine if you don't want a digital pre amp and are ok with 96kHz input sampling limit.
 
RobHolt said:
The claim regarding most dacs not going below 20Hz is quite wrong. The reverse is true - and most are flat down to around 5Hz.
Click to expand...

I thought it was a strange claim... but a lot of DAC specs seems to list 20 in their freq range. I don't know what the loss below 20hz is though.

eg:

Frequency Response: 20Hz to 20kHz (±0.1dB)
Click to expand...

http://www.cambridgeaudio.com/specifications.php?PID=320&Title=Specifications

Wikipedia seems to say that CDs as a format only go to 20hz. I'm surprised by it, but my (limited) knowledge of the meaning of frequency ranges came from big sound-systems where depth was important. I guess that's one of the reasons the culture around dub, jungle, etc stuck with vinyl so much longer than others.


RobHolt said:
Personally I'd just go for the Dacmagic Plus which is well thought out and well engineered (and goes down to DC).
The older discontinued Dacmagic is also fine if you don't want a digital pre amp and are ok with 96kHz input sampling limit.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the suggestion Rob, and I have looked at the DAC magics. One problem with the DAC magic plus for me is that although it has 2 optical ins, and 2 coaxial, you can only wire up a total of two of them.

I was thinking that this could be a good chance to get in to high-def music, which a USB connection is supposed to be less good for.

The Musical Fidelity M1 DAC could work, as my DEQ can also output AES, which would mean that I'd need one less optical input. It seemed to be getting good reviews? It's a good whack of cash, but I do have a lot of different sources of digital audiowhich would benefit from a good DAC.
 
Oh - and one more question. Where are the best places to keep an eye out for good second hand hi-fi stuff? Is it mainly e-bay? Elsewhere? Ta.
 

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