mains cables - i want to believe!

[shrink]

I can't think of any that act as an RFI filter, no matter what the construction type is. I have never subscribed to airborne RFI entering a hi-fi system except via a sensitive phono stage or via dodgy interconnects.

The weakest link throughout the entire chain from power station to your hi-fi components is the fuses, followed by the metallurgy and/or gauge of wire, then by the integrity of the connections including the plugs and sockets. It's the total loop resistance of the chain right through the circuit that's important.

My experiences with mains conditioners including the Isoteks has been that they can indeed suppress background noise but as a penalty they compress the dynamics in the process, which isn't a worthwhile trade-off for me personally. The cheaper ones are worse still. As for buying a cheap filter, some basic cables and some Wattgates thrown onto them isn't a cause for laughing, it's a serious waste of money IMVHO

Im afraid i have to disagree on several counts, a decent filter such as an isotek orion or sigmas definately applies no form of dynamic compression to the sound, In fact in every instance of such a piece of equipment used that i have been present for, they have increased the sense of dynamics and power by dropping the noise floor etc.

When i say cheap filter, i really mean something of at least orion standard, e.g. £300-400 spent on something fit for purpose.

as for basic cables and wattgates, once again im going to disagree with you when you say they are a waste of money, the quality of cable running through a mains lead i have found to be largely not that important, as long as it is "fit for purpose" e.g. can carry the required amount of current cleanly along it.

The big difference to be has always been in the quality of the connections, and in this case the wattgates are a great deal better than the tat supplied on most basic mains cables.

when chord did a whole lot of research on the subject of mains, they found the single greatest point of loss in the entire chain was at the wall plug, this single point had more contact losses and greater resistance than just about any other part of the whole electricity chain. I therefore firmly beleive that decent connectors can make the difference.

I have never been an advocate of mains conditioners, and believed like you that they would only serve to harm dynamics. Having actually bothered to listen to some, and now having bought one, i can say that i was wrong and that they can indeed have many positive effects. The orion GII that i use, only contributes to my system and takes nothing away from its extremely enjoyable sound.

 

[zanash]

I'm with effem on this ......

theres an easy test ...go out and buy a set of clip on ferrites there quite cheap ....listen with and without. In my system the dynamic are squashed with the addition of the ferrites. Now the big but this is due to the condition of the mains at your location ....not effem not mine....

I've dirty mains and use a isolation transformer ....this lifts the music from the mush ..as said the addition of ferrites themn tries to drop it back . I have a friend with extremely clean mains ...the iso t. makes his system sound congested....so imo its down to location and system ....I would suggest that it would not be a good idea to generalize about the effect these have unless your talking about specific systems.

I've heard a difference after a isotec filter .....its easy to test just get a cheap kettle lead and test it against the lead your using ....you should be able to hear a difference as all mains cable have there own character.

 

[shrink]

what does using ferrites have to do with using full blown mains filters. Im pretty sure there are no ferrites in there.

And given isotek "claim" (and notice i do carefully use the word claim) that products like the sigmas are capable of more electrical throughput than actually comes out your wall socket, i cant see how on earth it can limit dynamics.

Ive tried my orion in a system based in the city centre, where mains could be particularly bad, and it improved, i also use it in my system which is out in the middle of absolutely nowhere and the effects are likewise noticeable. I think there is more at play here than the quality of any mains in the area.

 

[zanash]

if you don't understand why ferrites have an association with mains filtering ..then I suggest that you go find out !

I would also view the claim you quote with some reservation...

I would also agree.....but the quality of the mains is highly variable with geographic location and time of day ....

I think your actually agreeing with me ....

but as stated ....IN MY SYSTEM ....ferrites are detrimental to the sound....as most off the shelf mains filter units use ferrites to reduce the size of there internal wound components ...Isotec may be free from such I've no idea ....but its easy to test go to maplin and buy a couple of clip on units and try it ...

the best position for these [I'm told ] is about 1/3 the length of the cable from either end ....which was the position I tried them on the power cables to my statics, with the effect previously described.

 

[shrink]

if you don't understand why ferrites have an association with mains filtering ..then I suggest that you go find out !

I would also view the claim you quote with some reservation...

I would also agree.....but the quality of the mains is highly variable with geographic location and time of day ....

I think your actually agreeing with me ....

but as stated ....IN MY SYSTEM ....ferrites are detrimental to the sound....as most off the shelf mains filter units use ferrites to reduce the size of there internal wound components ...Isotec may be free from such I've no idea ....but its easy to test go to maplin and buy a couple of clip on units and try it ...

the best position for these [I'm told ] is about 1/3 the length of the cable from either end ....which was the position I tried them on the power cables to my statics, with the effect previously described.

Oh im completely aware of the effect of a ferrite on the sound of a system and its why i do not use any on my cables.

but i do not see the value in a comment about a 2p ferrite when discussing dedicated mains filters. The isotek's as far as im aware do not employ ferrites in their equipment as they believe as you do that they limit dynamic potential.

Yes the quality of mains as standard does vary from location, with some being better than others and at different times of day... that i agree with.

But what my point was, is that the filter i use worked regardless of location or time of day. I have now had it in at least 3 locations and at various times of day ranging from morning to late night, and in every single case it brought clearly audible benefit to any system it was inserted.

This effect was identifiable not only by me, but by many others attending each listening session, and in each case, the benefit was never in doubt, even by those who previously didnt agree with any kind of filtration (and that strongly includes me, i wouldnt have touched the stuff before)

But then each to their own i guess, im sure its more than possible to acheive a great sounding system without ever going near such equipment, but i dont see that having one does any harm. There are enough opinions on both sides to conclude that neither party is "right" or "wrong", just differing opinions on what works.

 

[zanash]

I still think were saying the same thing....just viewing the issue from different angles ?

 

[shrink]

may well be the case, i view it from the point of someone that was deeply against the idea of any kind of filtration until i was proved otherwise.

My mate who's deeply into filtration, has a Sigmas and an orion (for his DVD player!! lol) has spent more on mains cables and filtration than his system is likely work. It was only when he demonstrated the benefits to me that i was quite impressed to say the least.

He happened to have a 4 way orion for sale, so i took it home and played with it and havent looked back.

Without the orion in place, my system sounds slower, less dynamic, bloated and lacking air. As soon as i put it in place, the foot gets tapping, everythings cleaner and sharper.

For me, thats the only evidence i need that its doing something right