Modded TEAC vs Arcam DVD

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lowrider

Live music is surround
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Saturday Michaelab brought his TEAC to compare with my FMJ DV27, reading CDs, we used TAG's test disc...

The TEAC is modded by WM, uses an Eupen PC and Apogee Wide-Eye with bullets...

The Arcam is standard, uses VDH Mainsstream PC and Apogee with AQ silver, sits on Isobearings and is covered with ERS...

The system is Krell Showcase in stereo mode with VDH PC, Apogee with Neutrik XLR, Bryston 4B ST, Deltec Black Sixteen, Sonus Faber EAII on Iron stands filled with sand, + 2 REL Strata III with AQ G-Snake, xover at 60db, HMS wall outlet and AudioDesign power bar...

OK, Michael, I did the hard work, your turn to spill out the results... :latte:
 
I'll do it later. Haven't got time at the moment. Executive summary though is that the differences were pretty subtle and of the "personal preference" kind rather than the "better/worse" kind.

Michael.
 
So just for clarification Antonio, that's about two grand's worth of DVD uberplayer vs. a few hundred quid's worth of CD transport. And the differences were subtle.
 
To be honest Merlin, I would hope for more, yes the teac was only £200, + Mods, however I own a DV27, and using the same cables and the wadia dac+ the modded teac the difference is less than subtle, The teac is a fair bit better, especialy in the bass, but you can't argue, both the guys did the test, we weren't there, however would be interesting to reverse the senerio, and see how the DV27 fairs in Mikes system, using his cables. Wm
 
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Your Teacs a transport only isn't it? Were both being used as transports? I assume into the DAC64?

Or is the teac an int cdp just that you're using it as a tranport Michael?
 
My Teac is transport only. They were both being used as a transport into António's Krell Showcase AV processor - helps if you read the first post in the thread :D

Trying them the other way around (both as transports into my DAC64) might be an idea aswell.

I was there at Tony's when we compared his DV27 as a transport compared to his Wadia and the Wadia cr@apped all over the DV27 - there was no contest. Depends on the DAC I guess.

I haven't forgotten to post the details of the results...just need a bit more time.

Michael.
 
Originally posted by michaelab
My Teac is transport only. They were both being used as a transport into António's Krell Showcase AV processor - helps if you read the first post in the thread :D

Trying them the other way around (both as transports into my DAC64) might be an idea aswell.

I was there at Tony's when we compared his DV27 as a transport compared to his Wadia and the Wadia cr@apped all over the DV27 - there was no contest. Depends on the DAC I guess.

I haven't forgotten to post the details of the results...just need a bit more time.

Michael.
Click to expand...

sorry, had no idea what a krell showcase was.
 
Merlin,

It is almost two grand's, but bought new, plays DVDs, has 192khz DACs and progressive scan... :MILD:

Also, that was not the point, but to verify if DVD players can, or cannot, play CDs properly... :p

WM,

Will you ever respect other people's tests, when they have different results than you expected... :newbie:
 
Antonio, I think your being a little harsh, owning the same player (dvd) as yourself, and comparing the same teac, in 2 systems, will always bring different results, however in I feel you should take your DV27 round to Mikes along with your Krell, see if you feel, it offers something different to yours, you never know :)
 
Originally posted by lowrider
Merlin,

It is almost two grand's, but bought new, plays DVDs, has 192khz DACs and progressive scan... :MILD:

Also, that was not the point, but to verify if DVD players can, or cannot, play CDs properly... :p

Click to expand...

Antonio,

FWIW, a Denon 2900 has a picture every bit as good as the DV27, plus compatibility with SACD and DVD-A and costs all of £700. That leaves £1K for a seious CD transport that will show the DV27 in the proper light.

Hey it's not bad for a DVD player at playing CD's, passable for sure. I am surprised however that WM's mods didn't have more of a say in matters:confused:
 
OK, I was a little harsh, I apologise, still, you do tend to doubt other people's opinions... :rolleyes:

Our test was what it was, not more, not less, we are not trying to establish universal truths, there aren't many, nor to compare systems or personal tastes...

I am sure Michael's, and others, systems offer a lot different than mine, but we also have different tastes and usages, so it is less important to compare them, quite important to hear as many as possible... :MILD:
 
Merlin,

There is more than image on DVDs...

As for "1K for a serious CD transport that will show the DV27 in the proper light", thats why I did the test, and, at least for me, it proves you wrong... :JPS:
 
Originally posted by lowrider
Merlin,

There is more than image on DVDs...

As for "1K for a serious CD transport that will show the DV27 in the proper light", thats why I did the test, and, at least for me, it proves you wrong... :JPS:
Click to expand...

Antonio,

Sorry but I have had both the DV27 and the 2900 and I certainly cannot see or hear any difference. When the DV27 came out it was certainly an excellent product and remains so. It's just that I have found various less expensive models to match or exceed it in the past few months. Plus of course the 2900 has the ability to play great surround music discs without nasty compression artifacts.;)

IMO, if you want to extract the maximum performance from Red Book you do need a dedicated transport. As you say, dvd players can playback cd's. But the likes of Wadia, Meridian and theta can make musc with them amigo:D
 
Originally posted by merlin
Hey it's not bad for a DVD player at playing CD's, passable for sure. I am surprised however that WM's mods didn't have more of a say in matters:confused:
Click to expand...
Let's not forget that we're not talking about a DVD player "playing CDs" (ie, using it's analog outputs) where I'm sure that even a mid-range dedicated CD player would walk all over the DV27.

We're talking about using the DV27 as a transport for reading CDs. Depending on the DAC in use the differences will be much less marked. It's possible that the DACs in the Krell Showcase are less transport sensitive than others.

FWIW, in my system the Teac is considerably better than my old Marantz CD50SE which I was using as a transport (bearing in mind that it also had a Trichord Clock3/Digital Output Board). The improvements in soundstage depth are particularly noticable.

OK, the main differences between the Teac and the DV27 in Antonio's system as I remember them (I'll exaggerate a little to get the points across - in all cases the differences were subtle):

I should add first, that the Teac was sitting on Antonio's wooden floor about 4 feet from one of his Rel Strata subwoofers ;) whilst the DV27 was on the rack with Audioprism "IsoBearing" isolation feet and two sheets of Stillpoints ERS covering it. It would have been interesting to have done the comparison with the Teac at least being on the rack but unfortunately there wasn't sufficient space without a whole load of bolloxing around.

- The Teac had a more laid back presentation than the DV27 which was quite "in your face". With the DV27 vocalists appeared to be right in front of you rather than a little further back.

- I felt the Teac had better image focus. Positions were much more clearly defined. That may have been partly responsible for the more laid back presentation. Whereas with the DV27 the vocalist appeared to be occupying an area about 3 feet wide, with the Teac you could really say where they were.

- I think Antonio felt the DV27 had a wider soundstage but I thought they were about the same.

In other areas (bass extension/tightness, treble extension/clarity, detail etc) I couldn't really say there were any differences.

We tried a few cable swaps aswell. Moving my Bulleted Apogee digi cable and Eupen power cable to the DV27 and putting Antonios Audioquest terminated Apogee digi cable and VDH Mainsstream power cable on the Teac and like that the differences were even less noticeable suggesting that the cables were having a greater effect than the transports themselves :eek:

Lastly, we stuck my Monarchy DIP 48/96 upsampler (running at 24bits/96kHz) into the chain and tried it both with the DV27 and the Teac. In both cases it cleaned up the midrange and treble a bit but maybe robbed the sound of a bit of "life".

Michael.
 
Something stifling in there I reckon, what I don't know ?, the dv27 is more forward and aggressive (an arcam trait save the cd33), has more drive as well, Intresting the dip, did the same to both :confused:
Would be interesting to see how it swings the other way, I always run the Dv27 on a sink, that wakes it up well. :)
 
WM, I didn't think beeing 16 or 24 bits had anything to do with transports, just DACs... :rolleyes:

Of course the supports do change the presentation, the Arcam had a similar presentation to the TEAC before I used the Isobearings...

Also, I know ERS cloth improved the performance of the Arcam, I reported it before, the differences would be larger without it, but it is a 40 quid tweak... ;)

Merlin, we are talking about 1K decks, not Wadia, Meridian or Theta, I don't have Krell, Meridian or whatever very expensive DVD player... :MILD:
 
Antonio, I'm afraid input bit rate makes a lot of difference :), If you take the same dac, input 2 indentical players, one using a 16 bit output the other 24, you might be a bit surprised. Wm
 

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