moving cables

amir

amir

Joined
Mar 19, 2004
Messages
345
Reaction score
0
van den hul and cardas have been writed about moving speaker cables in their site. they mentioned that sound will change if we move cables and this effect will be hidden after some days.
can you believe or did you have any experience?
 
Try it find out for yourself, there is no substitute for personal experience.

Personally speaking, after years of moving other manufacturers cables about, i expect they are talking nonsense...
 
I think it's possible that they will sound somewhat different whilst moving them, but should be the same when static again unless their new position becomes subject to an external electrical or magnetic field that wasn't present before.

Like penace said above - if you wrap them around the TV.......
 
amir said:
van den hul and cardas have been writed about moving speaker cables in their site. they mentioned that sound will change if we move cables and this effect will be hidden after some days.
can you believe or did you have any experience?
Click to expand...

I think it supposed to do with effecting the crystal structure of the conductors. When you bend a cable it will fatigue and change the structure of the metal. An extreme version of this is continually bending a piece of metal until it breaks. Many people don't believe in the 'burn in' process with cables, but I assume that once you have moved the cables and put them in their new position, it is likely to take a little time for them to re-run in allowing for the changes that have taken place during moving.

Assuming this is the case I think you would need a very revealing system and a very critical ear to notice though.
 
i think hifi need realy so special care from acousics to ... just for good sound
 
It's all cobblers designed to fuel the hifi foo foo dust industry coffers.

Work hardening of metals as Andybillet (two L's one T) suggests can change the structure of a metal but if the strands are thin enough and hence flexible then this won't be a problem at all, unless you've wired your speakers with paperclips.

You'll find a much more marked & interesting change is sound if you just put another record on....
 
JimmyB said:
It's all cobblers designed to fuel the hifi foo foo dust industry coffers.

Work hardening of metals as Andybillet (two L's one T) suggests can change the structure of a metal but if the strands are thin enough and hence flexible then this won't be a problem at all, unless you've wired your speakers with paperclips.
Click to expand...

Not agreeing or dissagreeing with you here about the main subject as I have no real opinion about it, but how would those comments from the manufacturers help them make more money?

Even the finest strand of wire will change its structure when bent.
 
andybillet said:
Even the finest strand of wire will change its structure when bent.
Click to expand...
No, actually, it doesn't. It remains an atomic crystal lattice of precisely the same structure.

It is, as JimmyB correctly, says:
COBBLER.JPG
 
amir said:
van den hul and cardas have been writed about moving speaker cables in their site. they mentioned that sound will change if we move cables and this effect will be hidden after some days.
can you believe or did you have any experience?
Click to expand...
CLAVERING+HORSE+MANURE2.png

is the only appropriate comment.
 
penance said:
i'm not sticking up for the cable bs, but if nothing changes, why do metals such as copper work harden?
Click to expand...
Er, who exactly said nothing changes? The original quote, to which the answer was addressed, was:

Even the finest strand of wire will change its structure when bent.

Note; when bent, NOT when aged for years. Please write out 100 times, "I must read the posts more carefully before responding".
 
So how many bending movements does it take to work hardden then tones?
Aged for years is bollox mate, i can get a piece of copper solid core wire and bend it back and forth untill it breaks, would take a few minutes.
 
tones said:
No, actually, it doesn't. It remains an atomic crystal lattice of precisely the same structure.
Click to expand...

Er, who exactly said anything about the atomic crystal lattice structure?

struc·ture
Something made up of a number of parts that are held or put together in a particular way.

By the very fact the shape is changed the structure is changed.

BTW. The manure joke was nearly funny the first time you used it in the other thread. You need some new material.

Sadly it appears some people can't just knock a few ideas about witout resorting to being insulting and bullying. Shows a person with closed mind.
 
andybillet said:
Er, who exactly said anything about the atomic crystal lattice structure?

struc·ture
Something made up of a number of parts that are held or put together in a particular way.

By the very fact the shape is changed the structure is changed.

BTW. The manure joke was nearly funny the first time you used it in the other thread. You need some new material.

Sadly it appears some people can't just knock a few ideas about witout resorting to being insulting and bullying. Shows a person with closed mind.
Click to expand...

Well, no, actually, it isn't made of a number of parts, it is a continuously drawn wire. It is a single entity, not a combination of individual bits. It is also very flexible (one of copper's properties is its ductility, which, with its conductivity, is why it is so useful for wire). The structure (sorry, struct.ure) is not at all changed. And you have to remember that that atomic crystal lattice is the reason for its being conductive in the first place. If the structure is indeed changed, you have made a new discovery and you'd better tell the metallurgists.

I'm sorry my manure joke doesn't nearly amuse you any more, but given the amount of material of similar constitution on hi-fi sites, expect to see it a lot more.

I can't say I've seen any insulting and bullying by anyone recently. Please be so good as to indicate where. Unless, of course, you're redefining "insulting and bullying" to mean "fearlessly expressing an opinion that is contrary to utter hogwash and/or mine". And I wish you a speedy opening of your closed mind. I of course respect completely your right to believe in
CLAVERING+HORSE+MANURE2.png
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Tones
I am not trying to argue, just a genuine question.
Like i said, i can bend copper to the point of breaking very quickly. If the change from flexible to breaking is not due to a change in the materials structure, what causes it?
 
penance said:
So how many bending movements does it take to work hardden then tones?
Aged for years is bollox mate, i can get a piece of copper solid core wire and bend it back and forth untill it breaks, would take a few minutes.
Click to expand...
Certainly you can, ol' bean, but I take it you don't do this other than to demonstrate that copper is breakable, as everything ultimately is? A break is indeed a change in structure (or more accurately a discontinuity in the structure). What we are taking about here is not such extreme treatment, but an alleged change in structure when the wire is moved - the van den Hul site gives the example of your hi-fi sounding worse when the cleaning lady has run over it with the vacuum cleaner and it takes all week to recover! This is absolute piffle.

What I meant by years is that over the course of years in normal use, copper slowly oxidises, even within insulation. The bright colour darkens (one of the copper oxides is black) and the flexibility is lost. It then becomes easier to break by relatively slight movements. But it takes a long time to get to this point.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
tones said:
Well, no, actually, it isn't made of a number of parts, it is a continuously drawn wire. It is a single entity, not a combination of individual bits. It is also very flexible (one of copper's properties is its ductility, which, with its conductivity, is why it is so useful for wire). The structure (sorry, struct.ure) is not at all changed. And you have to remember that that atomic crystal lattice is the reason for its being conductive in the first place. If the structure is indeed changed, you have made a new discovery and you'd better tell the metallurgists.

I'm sorry my manure joke doesn't nearly amuse you any more, but given the amount of material of similar constitution on hi-fi sites, expect to see it a lot more.

I can't say I've seen any insulting and bullying by anyone recently. Please be so good as to indicate where. Unless, of course, you're redefining "insulting and bullying" to mean "fearlessly expressing an opinion that is contrary to utter hogwash and/or mine". And I wish you a speedy opening of your closed mind. I of course respect completely your right to believe in
Click to expand...

Crystals mollecules and atoms are all parts.
Many parts forming a structure can still be conductive.
The human body is a single entity, but made up of many parts (such as a closed mind) and is also conductive.
Anyway
Yadda yadda yadda. Whaddever. I'm now bored.
Leave you to your last retort.

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz! :D

Night.
 
Well I notice the effect!

If I move either of my speaker cables even slightly, I get a percieved shift in the tonal balance. I do not believe it to be due to crystal structures, etc, but due to microphony. The major issue I have had in the last few years, has been to balance out different mechanical bourne resonances that have a perceived effect on the tonality of the system. I have found it interesting that Vertex AQ has come out with their products, aimed at this very effect.

Oh, my cables are Wireworld Eclipse on a wooden floor.

Dave
 

Latest posts

Back
Top