My First Valve Amp

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Obelix

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Hello everyone.
I'm a new member here and I joined looking for some advice.
I'm trying to decide which valve amp to buy as a start to upgrading my system.
I currently have a pair of AE neo 3's partnered with an old Rotel 930 amp and a squeezebox3.
I'm finding the whole setup far too bright and I've actually stopped listening to music at the moment as it's so fatiguing.
My plan is to invest in a valve amp to try and tame the treble a bit and get a more involving sound.
This setup was sort of cobbled together in a hurry as my old cyrus 1 gave up the ghost and my JPW ap2's popped their drivers out of old age.
My dilemma now is what amp to buy for a maximum budget of £500.
I'm seeing this as a starting point to getting some better speakers at a later date but I hope that the Neos will do for now.
I have been looking at the new Icon Stereo 25 (£499), The Separo e34i from hifiandaudio.com and also some offerings from The Affordable Valve Co.
There are also quite a few Chinese amps on e-bay.
I realise that all the above originate from the far east but I was wondering if anybody had any opinions on the risks of buying direct or going through somebody like Icon and paying a premium.
My thoughts so far areââ'¬Â¦

I like the price of the Separo but have read that the 220v transformers might be a concern.

AVC come across as a bunch of idiots (going purely by their web site).

Icon have a good reputation but could I get better value for money.

Chinese e-bay products looks like a minefield and I have read reports ranging from adfab to barge pole.

The last alternative is World audio Designs kit amp but I don't know how good an amp this is compared to the Icon or Separo.

I would really appreciate some input from you guys as to what you think would give me the best sound per pound (without too much hastle).

Thanks,

Martin
 
Id certainly recommend a valve as amp as a good direction to go, whether to tame the treble or not is another matter.

What you should gain is a very strong definition of presention.

eg positioning and overall soundstage.
 
Hi,

The World Audio Design kits start at £500. If you are a dab hand with the soldering iron then this could be a way forward. The WDKEL84 is a good sounding amp. It may suit your speakers but is rated at 15 watt per channel it may run out of steam depending on how loud you listen and size of room.

The Icon Audio Stereo 25 at £500 will come tested & built for the UK. Plus you will have UK back up. A good option for piece of mind.

http://www.iconaudio.co.uk/Stereo25.html


Many amps, like the Icon, are built in China. Some Chinese amps can be poor, some can be excellent.

You may be able to pick a good 2nd hand valve amp for under £500 such as an Audio Innovations amp.


Also you could look at your JPWs speakers. You can get replace ment drivers for Pure Sound.

http://www.puresound.info/id2.html

SCIDB
 
Thanks for the replies,

Are Audio Innovations still making valve amps?
I looked for their web site and could only find them selling an amp called the Alto.

I wouldn't mind having a go at the WAD kel84.
Would it be worth the effort building the kit amp soundwise or would the Icon be just as good?

Unfortunitally the JPW's have been given away so no chance of repairing them.

My listening room is small '14 x '12 so loud volumes are not an issue.
I listen mainly to acoustic and "light" music ie, Eva Cassidy, Neil Diamond but do sometimes stray into Pink Floyd and even a bit of Human League.

Regarding the Separo, http://www.hifiandaudio.com/ul_amplist.htm , would the 220v transformers cause any problems?
They also do a KT88 amp for £535.
Any thoughts?

Thanks,

Martin.
 
Perhaps also concider looking around for a Vintage Leak Stereo 20 , £300>£500 depending on condition and current state of affairs under the hood .

Prices have risen however still an excellent intro to valves .
 
Thanks,
The only thing that worries me a bit is that I'm not really sure what I should be looking for second hand.
Many seem to have been modified or tweaked and I wouldn't know a good one from a bad.
If it was a car then I'd look for a service record but amps...

Martin.
 
I am fairly new to hifi myself but was intrigued by valve amps and there supposedly smooth warm sound.

I bought a primaluna prologue 5 secondhand for £400. I wont go into the usual hifi speak but to my ears it did sound rather good, it certainly sounded smooth and easy on the ear.

The valves had already been upgraded to Electro Harmonix which after some research I found to be new production and only 'OK 'and for the best sound I needed NOS valves (New old stock).

Unfortunately NOS valves are expensive so I started by changing the pair of 12AU's with some secondhand Brimar valves. I plugged them in, takes 10seconds to change, and let them warm up. I nearly fell off my chair when I heard the change in sound! So much more detail. I had a much improved different sounding amp for a small cost, £20.

So well and truely into spending all my spare cash on new valves I spent some time on the Watford Valves website and bought a pair of GE 12AX7s at a cost of £60. I fitted them and got my next shock, they sounded terrible! far to bright, it hurt my ears to listen at any volume.

Digging in the amp manual I decided to swap the speaker terminals from 8ohm to 4ohm. This must have the effect of rolling off the treble because suddenly it sounded 'right' again with an added bonus of fatter bass.

Basically long story short I would definately recommend buying one for the fun factor of changing valves.

As to your worry about buying one. You take your risk secondhand but I wouldnt buy anything that had been modified internally and would stick with a modern one, primaluna or icon audio for example.
 
Icon amps used to be based on ming da (may still be) I have a couple of these and have to say they are very good. You can get them a bit cheaper than icon.
 
If you want to go second hand look at Puresound A30, Pathos Classic (hybrid), Eastern Electric Minimax, Union Research Unico Se or PrimaLuna prologue 2

I;ve heard almost all of these (apart from the Unico) and liked them all.
 
Thanks everybody for all your input so far.
I have lots to think about now so I will do some searching
and try and come to a decision.
I'll keep you informed.

Regards,

Martin.
 
Again, thanks for your input.

Does anybody else have an opinion on the audio innovation amp above.
It is very tempting at that price but could I do better for a bit more cash?
How do you think this would this stack up against the Icon?
I'm still a little weary of the age thing.

Thanks,

Martin.
 
Hi obelix

I would offer a word of caution on the Audio Innovations s 300. It is a great amp but only if your speakers are very easy to drive, say 91 db, 8 ohm. It has great clarity and delicacy but runs out of steam if the speakers are not right. for my money a Pure Sound A30 would be a good bet.(about the best valve amp at the price that i have heard. I haven't heard a Prima Luna, so it may be as good?).

You could also look for a AUdio Innovations s500. Only an early one (with 3 speaker output taps. The later has only 2 and is not as good IMHO). When i had a AI S300, the upgrade to the 500 was worth while.

Audio Innovations does not exist anymore, the name was bought by Richer Sounds back in the mid 90's and they only make the rather average Alto for their shops now.

Regards D Louth
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Obelix said:
Again, thanks for your input.

Does anybody else have an opinion on the audio innovation amp above.


Martin.
Click to expand...

It's a 'good amp', i've had the first version, which for some, is a little less pleasing to look at, when i compared it to the second version (some time ago ~) i can remember little if no difference between the two, it had a lovely lively sound, very revealing that made for an enjoyable listening experience, not a wooly or hazy sounding valve amp, which is why i liked it. Of course there are quite a few you could choose from, but say the 300 (as it's now in bidding) goes for between £150-£200, what *great* difference in sound would you get if you were to spend another £300 on a newbie, so what i'm saying is, in my opinion, you have no need to spend your maximum budget, if you can easily find a fine amp for around 200 quid why waste another 300 because it looks prettier or "may" sound "very slightly" better.
My philosophy doesn't follow badges or bucks, it goes as far as my ears, i recently heard a 50 grand system (in home) i'm sad to say that the guy wasted 40 of it because his Dick got a tingly feeling at the dealership, so don't be worried by the used market, it makes for good sense..:)
 
I suspect the speakers are causing the bright sound.

People often dont want to hear that if it's a newly purchased item, it's easier (mentally) to change something else.

Nothing (apart from the room) affects the sound more than the speaker, I'd bet my socks that's a more likely cause.

They are my favourite socks too.
 
get a Prima Luna, put in Telefunken Pre amp valves and Svetlana Winged C power valves.
amazing build and vfm.
 
the AI 300 would be a great choice but I think you'd need to find something like JPW P1's or AP2's to go with it. They do turn up quite often on ebay & usually at fairly reasonable prices.

These would probably be fine although I'd ask to see a picture with the grilles off.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/JPW-SPEAKERS_...39:1|66:2|65:12|240:1318&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

This would also be worth a look.

http://www.choice-hifi.com/items_display.asp?ID=1574

AudioInnovationsClassic.jpg


not pretty but effective.
 
Hi Folks,
Just a quick update.
After much thought I decided to order the Icon.
My reasoning was that it is a new amp within my price range, can be updated /upgraded at a later date and the company is based in Leicester which is just down the road from me.
They seem to have made some well recieved amps in the past so I am prepared to take the risk. (plus I can return it within 30 days if it doesn't suit).
Oh, did I mention that it also looks rather nice, very important when your listening room doubles up as a dining room.
Obviously though, none of this means a thing if it sounds terrible.
I'll let you know.
I very much appreciate everybodys input and was interested in the comments about the AE's.
I was quite surprised when I got them because the treble was actually quite muted and the mid a bit veiled.
I spent a long time on positioning with no great improvement.
Experimented with foam bungs in the ports,still no improvement.
It wasn't until I loaded the cabinets with 10 lb's of 2mm grub screws (all I could find at the time) that they really came alive.
I had a sound stage, mid range opened up dramatically and the base tightened up nicely.
The problem is that it came at a price. The treble sounded bright and a little harsh on some material.
Female vocals and acoustic guitars are now uncomfortable over prolonged periods of listening but I dont want to lose the nice midrange and tighter base.
This is why I thought i'd try a valve amp.
I am using a rather ancient Rotel budget at the moment so i'm hoping that a valver will improve on the mids and highs and I also have the option of a bit of speaker tuning by removing some mass.
It all seemed like a logical plan so i'll let you know if it worked (or not!)

Thanks,

Martin.
 

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