New cables or new player...

Yesterday a friend brought a TAG transport to compare with my, unmodified , FMJ DV27, using synclinc et all...

We played it using the Siltech digital cable and a PC a little better than standard, midrange was not natural, and bass was weak, at least comparing with my gear...

So we replaced the digital cable with mine, cheaper Apogee, and, umbelievably to my friend, the mids fell into place...

Then we used my VDH Mainsstream PC as well, and bass came to live, now TAG's highs where slightly better than the Arcam, and everything else at least as good...

We are talking about more than 2.000 pounds difference between the players, (and the Arcam has PS and DACs), the cables cost less then 200 pounds, and thats keeping the old ones...

 

Well... :bookworm: :SLEEP: :zzzz: :duck: :student: :bakeoff: :NADowner:

 

Well Antonio,

What you are experiencing is what WM and I have been saying Basically that a good £500 CD player with £500 of mains treatments, will leave a £1,000 CD player for dust. Proper RF shielding, better PSU and more clean current all help to transform CD most CD players in disproportion to the cost.

Just try telling most people Of course their CD player is better, it must be, it's the next model up

 

In my case the two cables only cost about 10% of the player, still...

 

Antonio, as I said on the CDA forum, you're comparing two DVD players used as transports, the Arcam DV27 and the Tag DVD32R. Udo Zucker I'm sure would beg to differ but I really don't think that the DVD32R is worth the extra £2K. It has the sync link which IMO would be its only benefit really over the DV27.

However, if you were to use a decent CD transport I think you'd be surprised Of course, they wouldn't be much good for watching movies...

When I have my Teac T1 (picking it up tonight ) and have done all the re-clocking and PSU mods to it I'll bring it over to your place for some tests :MILD:

Michael.

 

António, where did you get your Apogee Wide Eye cable - and how much did it cost? I might have to look into it...

btw, my Teac T1 transport only cost £200 the mods will cost about £3-400 though :cry:

Michael.

 

I got mine from Digisom, the distributor is Audiopro, but I think it is unfair to buy from them, as they did nothing to sell it, or Bryston that they also carry...

As for the CD transport challenge, I dare you...

 

Just imagine the improvement possible if you did it properly Antonio , especially using a real CD transport

 

Hi Merlin,

I did it properly, "real CD transport" is pure BS, as I am sure will be proven when Michael brings his around...

 

:cry: :cry: :ffrc: :ffrc: :ffrc:

 

:baby:

 

Remeber antonio I have a DV27 and not a standard one either a dedicated cd transport is better, however, some multi format units are good IE the Teac DV 50 and the Belcanto player 1. but for the cash the Tag is well over price, and to be fair so is the arcam dv 27

 

Maybe you use the wrong cables... :boughtMF:

The Arcam could also be overpriced, but it does sound miles better than budget DVD players, its upgradeable, and plays DVDs unlike your CD players , while the TAG is only marginally better than the DV27... :MILD:

But don't worry, I will admit if Michael's sounds better than mine, and won't be the least worried about it... :beer:

 

Antonio, what I'm saying is if you use multi format, then makes sense to use the Tag/Arcam no question, it's just us guys what more that's all, even my souped up DV27 is 'dull and undynamic' compared to the Wadia.
But as you say, the Wadia don't play DVD's so more expense. WM

 

I am not saying that there aren't CD players that play CDs better than DVD players, only that being a DVD player, doesn't automatically means it plays CDs worst than any CD player, and, of course, you also have to pay for the DVD playing, etc... :club:

 

Hi Antonio

The Arcam DV27 isn't rubbish, but for 2k more I'd expect the TAG to walk it, so either TAG have lost the plot, lost a reasonable pricing structure, or your cables aren't good enough to show up reasonable meaning differences

Seriously though, we had a Rega Jupiter cdp (the integrated player) through the offices the other day, and 3 quite different cables started to sound very much the same through it, so it goes to show not all transports are created equal, and in a similar way, we can suggest a few cables (we won't of course, that wouldn't be fair to the manf. of them) that make almost all transports sound the same. This being the case, for any really constructive camparisons to be made, you need to try a few more cables to enable you to test transports accurately, or vice versa. If you're looking to blow 2k on a transport upgrade, I think that you need to look more closely at cables (power and digi ic) and supports for the items.

I don't doubt your findings at all of course in the current scenario, but I do think there will be more difference between the two players than you are currently hearing.

Cheers

 

Timpy,

You didn't read my posts, or you would notice that both digital ICs and PCs made a significant difference in the sound from both players...

Seriously, I imagine if I compared the players with standard or worst cables, the difference would be larger, as the TAG has better power supplies, a load of them, and is more imune to jitter with synslink and all...

What is obvious from my tests is that a good PC minimizes power supply problems and a good digital IC eliminates many jitter problems, if I used better cables, the difference could be even smaller, but I think my cables are extremely good value for money regarding the results... :MILD:

And don't worry, I am not considering buying the TAG, on the contrary, I am returning my AV32R DP today, hope the comming Krell Showcase will let me hear music at least as well... :duck:

 

How dare you use the K word on here Antonio, WM will take a stick to you I say

Seriously, I'd scan Audiogon for a Casablanca 11, way better musically than the Krell, great dacs and a good tonal match for the SF's and Brystons. I've seen them going for around $7000 loaded with superior dacs an all channels, the Krell ain't in this league (nor is it upgradeable).

So Tag really are going Bye Bye then

 

Well, have to wait and see... The Krell looks like the best alternative to me, room eq, if less powerfull than TMREQ, software upgradeable, 192mhz DACs, etc...

I only heard it once, in last years local audioshow, with Wilson Watt/Puppy 7, the best sound I ever heard too, the previous year I heard Wilson Watt/Puppy 6 with Meridian and Plinius, and I find the sound of my SFs generally similar to Wilson's, so I don't see any reason not to like it in my system... :MILD:

Now about upgradeable, I ended up selling my old TAG and buying the new one, I can do the same with any other brand, can't I...

I don't think it is a good idea to buy a processor from Audiogon...

 

Of course you can Antonio.........provided you don't mind losing 70% of it's value inside a year, mainly because it is not upgradeable

Why