Paradigm, Revel, and Home Grown Dancers

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mowry

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Have you listened to the Paradigm Signature Series?
The S1 and S2 are high value loudspeakers and they retain there price and they are typically available at a discount. The S8 is their top model.


A new problem with the Usher Dancer Series in that they don't hold their value . Here's a used pair of Be-718's going for just a bit over US$1025 / pair (list price US$2750)
http://cgi.ebay.com/Usher-Audio-Be-...trkparms=65:12|66:2|39:1|72:1240|293:1|294:50


The Revel Ultima2's are very high performance loudspeakers.


You can build your own Mini Dancer 2's with active electronics and DSP for less money than a new Pair of Be-718's.

TWEETER: Dayton Audio RS28A 2 x US$50 + shipping (use Express Mail Service)
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=275-130

WOOFER: Usher 8948A 7" Carbon Fiber/Paper Woofer 4 x US$118 + shipping (use EMS)
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=296-603

ELECTRONICS: 2 x Digmoda DDC520
http://www.s-m-audio.com/digmoda/DDC520.pdf

ENCLOSURE: User


You can then add a Sub(s) or build your own.

SUBWOOFER: User

ELECTRONICS: Digmoda DDC1000SW
http://www.s-m-audio.com/digmoda/DDC1000SW.pdf


The best speaker cable/wire is in the limit, no speaker cable/wire.
 
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mowry said:
The Revel Ultima2's are very high performance loudspeakers.
Click to expand...

Mowry
A very debatable statement :o

As much as I am not a fan of User products, you do seem to have an axe to grind with them.
It is the individuals choice however they sound, as to whether they are happy with the products.
Any particular reason you are 'singling' out Usher?
 
Tony, seems to me like he's part of a dirty tricks campaign by one of the other 'berylium' tweeter manufacturers. Sad really, it just brings the entire concept into disrepute, no one wins.
 
Guys,

Where's the axe? What dirty trick?

There's some good info in that post.

Of course you are free to disagree but could we stick to the issues and leave the metaphors out of the discussion.
 
mowry said:
A new problem with the Usher Dancer Series in that they don't hold their value . Here's a used pair of Be-718's going for less than US$750 / pair
http://cgi.ebay.com/Usher-Audio-Be-...trkparms=65:12|66:2|39:1|72:1240|293:1|294:50
Click to expand...

A pointless statement, that is an auction and since you posted the link the bidding has reached above $1000. 4 days left also, kinda pisses on your bonfire a bit.
Maybe you should find some sales with a final sale price if you wish to use that info.

Does seem you have an axe to grind with Usher, what company are you working for?
 
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Hey,

Thanks for the info.

I updated my post.

I don't work for any company.

What company do you work for?
 
Still a completely pointless statement and link, it is an AUCTION!
That is not a final sale price, and with 4 days to go who knows what the final price will be. You are using it to say the Usher speakers have poor resale value and yet that is not a resale value:rolleyes:

I work fo a well known international IT Corperate, nothing to do with audio what so ever.
 
Mowry - it is true that you seem very anti-Usher. I understand their questionable use of the term 'beryllium'.. but you may come across as being on a crusade if you are not careful....incidentally those Usher speakers in your linked Ebay ad are now well over $1,000 USD - 1/2 price is quite reasonable on used hifi these days of a nearly new variety.

Tony, good to hear from you. Some people will love Revel Ultima speakers, and for them they will be the ultimate transducer. Others will like B&W, Focal, JM Labs, Naim etc. I don't think it's debatable that Revel Ultima's are very good speakers. They may not be to your taste which is very different.

As an example I would prefer to listen to a second hand pair of Lowther Acousta's (£500 ish) than any speaker ever made by JM Labs, B&W or Focal. It's just horses for courses in this hobby.
 
wadia-miester said:
As much as I am not a fan of User products, you do seem to have an axe to grind with them.
It is the individuals choice however they sound, as to whether they are happy with the products.
Any particular reason you are 'singling' out Usher?
Click to expand...

Well my Usher Be718's sound wonderful with the Evo I bought from you Tony. :D
 
Usher,Paradigm,Revel etc....

mowry said:
Have you listened to the Paradigm Signature Series?
The S1 and S2 are high value loudspeakers and they retain there price and they are typically available at a discount. The S8 is their top model.


A new problem with the Usher Dancer Series in that they don't hold their value . Here's a used pair of Be-718's going for just a bit over US$1025 / pair (list price US$2750)
http://cgi.ebay.com/Usher-Audio-Be-...trkparms=65:12|66:2|39:1|72:1240|293:1|294:50


The Revel Ultima2's are very high performance loudspeakers.


You can build your own Mini Dancer 2's with active electronics and DSP for less money than a new Pair of Be-718's.

TWEETER: Dayton Audio RS28A 2 x US$50 + shipping (use Express Mail Service)
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=275-130

WOOFER: Usher 8948A 7" Carbon Fiber/Paper Woofer 4 x US$118 + shipping (use EMS)
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=296-603

ELECTRONICS: 2 x Digmoda DDC520
http://www.s-m-audio.com/digmoda/DDC520.pdf

ENCLOSURE: User


You can then add a Sub(s) or build your own.

SUBWOOFER: User

ELECTRONICS: Digmoda DDC1000SW
http://www.s-m-audio.com/digmoda/DDC1000SW.pdf


The best speaker cable/wire is in the limit, no speaker cable/wire.
Click to expand...


Definitely a bit of a downer on Usher for some reason?

1) Paradigm are virtually unheard of in the UK - I have no doubt that it's a good product and a big brand over there in the USA and Canada. I would question however, if it "hold it's value" so well, why is it "typically available at a discount" (and it is hugely discounted for example at Audiophile Liquidator in the US)

Furthermore, a quick historical search on eBay UK for Paradigm products would give some indication of the resale value of the brand in our country......

2) One could build absolutely anything imaginable for less than you might buy the (original) product - it will never actually be that product but will bear some similarities. The same could be true for any loudspeaker in the world. I can buy an iPhone clone from China for around £100, it may have several components identical to the iPhone but it will never actually be an iPhone. It is bizarre to single-out the Usher brand?

The bit that stood-out for me most was "Enclosure: User" - Usher cabinets are made by skilled craftsmen and are an integral part of the overall design in terms of aesthetic and performance. Maybe this is simply an unfortunate spelling mistake (User/Usher?). You simply can't build a similar enclosure from bits acquired from your local DIY store.

I have plenty of happy Usher customers, the brand represents fantastic value for money compared to some of the established European offerings I strongly suspect some under-hand tactics from manufacturers who are marketing products of similar quality but costing over twice the price.
 
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Dear Audiologica

Do you advise your 'Usher' customers that the Berillium drive units in their speakers are not actually made out of Berillium at all?

Mowry's first and lengthy post on this was a revelation, and would be enough for me personally to avoid Usher products with fake Berillium drive units in them (if I were in the market).

Also, I disagree with your opinion on cabinets. I have seen inside many cabinets, and can get one made by my local carpenter to a higher quality of build than most of them. THere is no reason WHATSOEVER that a self-build, (or a pro-build) should not be equal to or even better than a commercial alternative - which no doubt has cost cutting measures to build to a price...with a self build, you can do exactly as you like.

I have seen low quality bracing, low quality wadding, low quality MDF cabinets (albeit with a shiny veneer), and of course speakers with inexpensive polyprop caps and cheapo components in a crossover.... all this I have seen in speakers in the £3000-£6000 range, and of course below.
 
Hi Bottleneck,

No we do not advise our customers that the Beryllium drive units are "not made out of beryllium at all", as far as I am aware they do contain beryllium, in much the same way that our QED Silver Spriral interconnects contain (but are not made of) silver.

If however your are correct and they do actually contain no beryllium, then we need to clearly state this on our marketing, so thanks for your bringing this potential issue to our attention.

Beryllium is used in driver-wafers to provide rigity whilst keeping the mass low, it's a brittle metal and I suspect too much would cause the diaphragms to crack.

Our customers tend to buy Usher speakers because of the sound/look and price. They are tremendous value compared to most European equivalents.

I totally agree with you about the cabinets, I have seen several examples of pretty poor bulid quality in some highly respected (and expensive) models. My point though was two-fold, firstly I refer specifically to Usher cabinets whose build-quality is superb. Secondally, why single-out Usher as a brand which can be built much more cheaply as a DIY product? Surely the same can be said of any product?

Taken together, the "Be" issue, the DIY issue and then the "resale value problem" rings alarm bells with me. Three separate lines-of-attack appear to be an attempt at spoiling tactics against the Usher brand by a particular individual.
 
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Hi Audiologica

I have no gripe with any manufacturer, in any way.

Mowry started the thread below - which I read with mouth-agape...as you probably will !! (read the attachment in the first post or so)

https://www.audio-forums.com/as-rediect/showthread.php?t=22300

It seems all that glitters is not.....Berrillium !

Whether Mowry has some other problem with Usher, I could not say, don't know him.
 
Gripes!

Hi bottleneck,

Did not mean to infer it was you had the gripe - far from it.

I've since discovered that a certain gentleman within the US audio industry (coincidentally with the same surname as a somewhat familiar Zerogain username?) had a previous issue with Usher in the USA regarding the % of berillyium in it's drivers.

Usher appear to have switched their berrilyium supplier a couple of months back in an effort it seems to assure their customers, nevertheless our friend seems to be using any opportunity to knock an excellent product.

Regards,
Audiologica
 
Audiologica said:
Hi bottleneck,

Did not mean to infer it was you had the gripe - far from it.

I've since discovered that a certain gentleman within the US audio industry (coincidentally with the same surname as a somewhat familiar Zerogain username?) had a previous issue with Usher in the USA regarding the % of berillyium in it's drivers.

Usher appear to have switched their berrilyium supplier a couple of months back in an effort it seems to assure their customers, nevertheless our friend seems to be using any opportunity to knock an excellent product.

Regards,
Audiologica
Click to expand...


Hi,

Can you (on behalf of Usher) say that the 'Berillium' drive units they now use are 100% Berillium, and not some kind of 'powder coating' which seems to have been what happened before.

Also, do you know if they are doing anything to address existing products - e.g. product recalls, free tweeter replacements etc

**edit I say this to give them assistance to clear up this.. PR disaster..
 
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