Prima Luna users - happy so far?

[SteveC]

Hi, I'm thinking of breaking out of my Linn flock to use a valve power amp, no preamp (for the time being) into Linn Akurate 212 speakers. Initial source would be SlimDevices Transporter. I wondered how the Prima Luna users in the forum are getting on and whether they like their amps?

My speakers are 87 db/W/m sensitivity, so I need a few watts - perhaps 30+wpc. I was thinking of the Prima Luna Prologue 5 stereo amp, or possibly the Prologue 7 monoblocks. Price in total around £2000 somewhere is fine.

I could be persuaded to use the floorspace for the Prologue or other monoblocks, but there are domestic considerations. Amazingly, at the suggestion of a valve amp to the SO, I got pretty much immediate approval on glittery shiny trinket grounds, but big monoblocks would perhaps draw too much attention and take up space. On those grounds I've turned down a chance of a second-hand BAT VK-60 because it's almost 2ft by 1 ft footprint IIRC. The VK-55 is smaller but a new one is more expensive where I live (Norway).

Any thoughts on Prima Lunas or something similar would be much appreciated.

 

[TonyL]

I'm running a Prologue 2 into a pair of 87db Harbeth Compact 7s. I'm no headbanger, in fact I listen pretty quietly, but I haven't felt it underpowered at all regardless of whether I've got it stuffed with KT88s or EL34s. Only disappointment with it is that the factory fitted 88s didn't get anywhere close to lasting a year before making odd popping noises. The little tubes at the front all make a big difference to the sound and the factory supplied ones can easily be improved upon. Mine is currently stuffed with EI 'Telefunken clone' 12AX7s, NOS RCA 12AU7s and Groove Tubes EL34LS. Sounds damn good.

Tony.

 

[SteveC]

Thanks, Tony. I just spoke to the Norwegian supplier and he commented that an upgrade they have settled on for the Prologue 7s after the first set wear out is to replace them with Golden Dragons and Svetlanas.

 

[Goomer]

I also use a Prologue 2, initially with a pair of Ruark Equinox and now with Quad ESL 63s. Both sounded excellent with it and neither are short on volume or control, although the Quads are the better match to my ears. Mine now has Svetlana KT88s, Sovtek 12AX7 and JJ/Tesla ECC82 - sounds damn good also.

Isn't there a s/hand Prima Luna pre/power set up here in the classifieds?

 

[SteveC]

Thanks for the comments and the valve info. I'm starting a bit of a learning curve here since I haven't run valves since Quad II in the early 80s.

You're right about the for sale, but I must admit I'm leaning towards the monoblocks since they are not as big as the BATs and get good comments also. Also there might be shipping problems sto where I am, and having to pay 25% local VAT on top of the UK VAT that a private seller couldn't take off.

 

[madbarkingcat]

I've got the Prologue 3/5 and could thoroughly recommend this combination whether with stock valves or otherwise. It's perhaps worth mentioning that I had 12AX7 & 12 AU7 failures of stock valves within a short time of purchase but these were replaced free of charge by Trevor at Guildford Audio and like others here I have since played around with various alternatives.

I have no problems at all with volume considerations - I haven't any desire to find the limits through Kef Reference 1s which are about 87dbs. Combined with a new (second hand) Resolution Audio Opus 21 I have a musical & detailed system which I won't be changing for the forseeable future.

Mind you, the speakers are getting on a bit.......

 

[SteveC]

Thanks for breaking your duck on this one Yes, I spotted the Guildford web page. Does the Five have a 2 ohm tap? I think the Seven does; I still haven't been able to establish what sort of load my speakers are (impedance curves, etc.)

 

[Garmt]

I've got the Prologue 3/5 and could thoroughly recommend this combination whether with stock valves or otherwise. It's perhaps worth mentioning that I had 12AX7 & 12 AU7 failures of stock valves within a short time of purchase but these were replaced free of charge by Trevor at Guildford Audio and like others here I have since played around with various alternatives.

I have no problems at all with volume considerations - I haven't any desire to find the limits through Kef Reference 1s which are about 87dbs. Combined with a new (second hand) Resolution Audio Opus 21 I have a musical & detailed system which I won't be changing for the forseeable future.

Mind you, the speakers are getting on a bit.......

Try your system without the PL 3 and use the volume control in the PL 5. Big difference...

 

[melorib]

I have Cayin A-88T, like it very much...

 

[SteveC]

Yes Antonio, I'm not sure of the full story, but I think Prima Luna bought the rights to the design or something. It looks good in your room.

Garmt, did you mean different without the preamp in a positive way? I'm planning to try without a preamp at first (until the SO complains of not being able to play the iPod through it without fiddling with wiring ) I believe the output impedance of the Transporter is 200-300 ohms, and the input impedance of the amps is 100 kohms, so that's fine. Volume control is digital but done at 24-bit precision so there is no loss of resolution at least down to 40/100, even if one thinks that is an issue potentially.

Re impedance curves, I'm not so concerned now I've read around a bit. I still haven't found impedance plots, but my speaker's larger sibling is the same design except for the bass end, and a plot of these was published in Stereophile.

Measured impedance for Linn Akurate 242s (Impedance is the heavy line)​

I will definitely try out the 4 ohm tap on whichever I get, and even the 2-ohm that the Sevens have.

Handily, their gain is 28.5 dB vs. my existing amp's 28.6 dB (Linn 2250) so I could experiment with Y-split passive biamp e.g. for bass (or even try a Linn active bass card) if this turned out to be softer than I'm used to (no reason to suspect this in advance).

One issue I haven't covered if I went monoblocked is long RCA leads. I'd probably need 2 to 3 m per side. I don't expect any electrical issues but I might have to ask some nice fellow like Zanash to make me some I'm certainly happy with his IO Silvers with the Transporter. Then there might be occasion to try short speaker leads along the same lines.

 

[Garmt]

I had positive effects with the PL 5 driven direct instead of using the PL 3 between the Opus 21 and PL 5. And I would always use the 4 Ohm tap with the LP 5 and 2 Ohm tap with the PL 7.

 

[SteveC]

I have a home loan of a pair of Sevens coming this weekend or Monday (saves putting up the xmas lights) so I will try the different taps, expecting the 2 to be most appropriate.

 

[eric_audio]

I had positive effects with the PL 5 driven direct instead of using the PL 3 between the Opus 21 and PL 5. And I would always use the 4 Ohm tap with the LP 5 and 2 Ohm tap with the PL 7.

Interesting. Now, I'm not in the market for a valve amp, but I recently heard the Opus 21 and was quite impressed. There are other possible upgrades higher on my list (speaker cables, Nespa #1), but I would consider the Opus 21 later. However, I have also read that the Opus 21 sounds considerably better through the fixed DIN output. In my case that would mean that I have to purchase a preamp (I currently have a Wadia 830 directly connected to a power amp).

Sorry for the off-topic remark Steve...

 

[SteveC]

Not at all, how/when to drive an amp directly from a digital source vs when one is better off with a preamp/passive/TVC is really on topic for me too. Currently I have a Squeezebox Transporter (networked file streamer) directly feeding the Sevens (which came last night) but this of course does not allow subsidiary inputs, except for those that I can make digital and feed into the Transporter (which is effectively a DAC too).

I'd consider an ADC such as a Behringer SRC2496 (I know of no other similar device) to get seconday sources in, such as TV sound, laptops, iPod, etc. This is maybe not relevant to your needs.

 

[Garmt]

The Opus 21 does not sound considerably better through its DIN outputs, only a bit better. The difference between these outputs is much smaller than the degradation of the PrimaLuna PL3 pre-amp.

I am happy to recommend the Opus 21 to anyone looking for a direct feed. It even has an extra digital input and with the Opus XS even more analog AND digital inputs, making it a great pre-amp/CD-player combination.

 

[eric_audio]

The Opus 21 does not sound considerably better through its DIN outputs, only a bit better. The difference between these outputs is much smaller than the degradation of the PrimaLuna PL3 pre-amp.

I am happy to recommend the Opus 21 to anyone looking for a direct feed. It even has an extra digital input and with the Opus XS even more analog AND digital inputs, making it a great pre-amp/CD-player combination.

I checked the RA website, and figured that adding the XS would make it a quite flexible system. You could even add a turntable, although I don't know the quality of the XS phono stages.

 

[eric_audio]

Not at all, how/when to drive an amp directly from a digital source vs when one is better off with a preamp/passive/TVC is really on topic for me too. Currently I have a Squeezebox Transporter (networked file streamer) directly feeding the Sevens (which came last night) but this of course does not allow subsidiary inputs, except for those that I can make digital and feed into the Transporter (which is effectively a DAC too).

I'd consider an ADC such as a Behringer SRC2496 (I know of no other similar device) to get seconday sources in, such as TV sound, laptops, iPod, etc. This is maybe not relevant to your needs.

Currently I have a very simple CD only system, so the Wadia directly connected to my Chord power amp works perfectly for me. Swapping to the Opus 21 would add a digital input, whilst adding the XS unit from Resolution Audio would change it into a quite versatile system, adding a few line inputs, and even phono inputs. Personally, I would not consider the Behringer, just a bit afraid that all that digital correction will make the sound less musical (I have no evidence though).

 

[SteveC]

AFAICT the SRC2496 is a format convertor and ADC, as opposed to the DEQ2496 that does the correction stuff. Even so, I agree with the spirit of what you're saying. And it wouldn't look right on the rack either

At one time I would have found the extended Opus just the thing in a more minimal living room setting, but just now for me a lot of it would be duplication of the Transporter functions.

 

[Garmt]

I checked the RA website, and figured that adding the XS would make it a quite flexible system. You could even add a turntable, although I don't know the quality of the XS phono stages.

The XS phono stage is quite clean sounding, but can be bettered. Use a warm sounding cartridge with it though and it shines. When you consider the cost of the complete XS unit, the phono input is a nice bonus, which performs not bad at all!

Also, read the hifi.nl review. It also reviews the XS unit.

 

[ema]

Hi, I'm thinking of breaking out of my Linn flock to use a valve power amp, no preamp (for the time being) into Linn Akurate 212 speakers. Initial source would be SlimDevices Transporter. I wondered how the Prima Luna users in the forum are getting on and whether they like their amps?

Hi Steve.
I have owned a PL Prologue One since last April and I'm very happy with it! I use it with Audio Note Az-two floorstanding speakers (93 db sensitive): probably not the most neutral set up, but it never tires me listening and the high sensitivity allows to use the PL1 at quite low volume (and so with negligible distortion).
One month ago I upgraded the stock 12ax7 pair with Tung-Sol's and the EL34 quad with SED's (former Svetlana) and the sound got even better: slightly more 3d soundstage (even if it was already very 3d!) and, as I hoped, more weight in the extreme bass (e.g., now the bass drum sounds more full and much less dampened than before). This is a very cost-effective upgrade, since these are all current production tubes. I'm also waiting for the QED mains cable that I ordered online.
I hope this post will be useful.