Pulling faces is ridiculous

Rodrigo de Sá

Rodrigo de Sá

This club's crushing bore
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Just watched Mitsuko Ushida playing Mozart (on Mezzo). Am I the only one that feels that she is utterly ridiculous? I find that kind of strip tease of the soul obscene.

Brendel is also ugly to watch, but still...
 
In past people went to see a witch doctor or something perform a rite, and people were fascinated. So what we see affects what we hear. This happens all the time in concert pianism. The pianists are well dressed but if they wore jeans, we would assume the music is ordinary. They make hypnotic gestures with their hands just as Mandrake the Magician.

Concert pianism has much common with hypnotism and magic. Concert pianists even perform in the same halls and wear exactly same clothes as magicians (black tailcoats). Notice that the piano keys are arranged in a repetitive hypnotic pattern.

If you did not like it, maybe Uchida should practise her show with mirror or take some lessons in hypnotism.
 
Rodrigo de Sá said:
Am I the only one that feels that she is utterly ridiculous? I find that kind of strip tease of the soul obscene.
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It's a question of character like to be introvert and extrovert. Showing your feelings is not a bad thing.

I believe listening to classical music has also a lot to do with understanding the feelings of other people. The fact that somebody feels pulling faces is rediculous and obscene tells me that this person is some how short minded or have big inhibitions. Not certainly good requirements for classical music.
Of course this is my own opinion. It would be nice to find out excatly why a person gets these feelings. This could maybe change my mind.

regards

Titian
 
Another thing is that she is Japanese. So your subconscius sees an alien pulling faces which is, of course, an ancient warning sign.

As a result, your conscius mind feels uncomfortable.
 
For me, it depends on whether or not the mugging and physical antics ring true. One expects a musician to be expressing herself while performing, and of course facial expressions are likely to be part of that - sometimes visual clues can even help shed light on what she is trying to say. Conversely, a musician who remains completely impassive throughout risks giving the impression of being detached or bored - though of course this may also be perceived as intellectual rigour, or professional discipline, or any number of other things, depending on the viewer.

However, there are some performers who can come across as very self-conscious in a "look at me, I really feel this music" kind of a way. (Of course, if you look round at the audience in a concert, you'll see many people there trying to give the same impression!)

It sometimes seems to me that certain particularly elaborate series of grimaces are more physical than emotional in origin; that is to say, they are more a by-product of the concentration and the fine motor control involved in producing the performance than they are a mirror of the artist's emotions. I've always found Vengerov a little distracting to watch, because his face seems to reflect his technique in this way, and it seems to me that he produces a lot of cartoonish facial expressions at emotionally inappropriate moments. In the picture below, for example, he looks like he's insouciantly throwing out some light-hearted piece of fluff by Kreisler, or something, but - without knowing when the picture was taken - he could just as well be deep in the bleak emotional heart of some war-torn 20th-century concerto.

20060517205633_5-vengerov..jpg
 
titian said:
It's a question of character like to be introvert and extrovert. Showing your feelings is not a bad thing.

I believe listening to classical music has also a lot to do with understanding the feelings of other people. The fact that somebody feels pulling faces is rediculous and obscene tells me that this person is some how short minded or have big inhibitions. Not certainly good requirements for classical music.
Of course this is my own opinion. It would be nice to find out excatly why a person gets these feelings. This could maybe change my mind.

regards

Titian
Click to expand...

Strong words! You certainly do not hold your emotions!

Now come off it, Titian - do my posts suggest that I am short minded or have big inhibitions and that I am unfit for classical music??
 
Dear Bat and Pete

There is, indeed, a lot of the shaman about pianists (and also singers, violinists and conductors). Brendel said that he pulled faces in order to lead the emotions of the audience.

This I can understand, but I honestly feel that when one is playing in earnest there are a lot of emotions that surface. There are a lot of muscles in the face, and most of them convey emotional states. When one is playing, it is almost impossible for these muscles to be inert. However, they are only active, they do not take control.

I like to think of the difference between organists and pianists. Very few organists pull expressive faces. They do show emotions in their face, but truth is, the muscles are active, not under conscious control.

There is only one clear reason for this. While playing, the organist is usually out of sight of the audience. So there is no point in pulling faces and what emotions the organist may express are true ones.

Of course the very fact that the audience does not see the organist makes the organist not see the audience, and therefore he does not react to the public. I have seen many players really attuned to their audiences and of course they expressed emotions: but they were really not pretending. I remember Wieland Kuijken in a marvelous public performance when he quite understood the enthusiasm of his audience and reacted to it.

But Ushida pulls faces even when she is playing to the camera!
 
Rodrigo de Sá said:
There is only one clear reason for this. While playing, the organist is usually out of sight of the audience. So there is no point in pulling faces and what emotions the organist may express are true ones.
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Is the problem not really a modern one, namely that the arrival of television and video has placed us all in a place where we're not really supposed to be, namely, staring up the artist's nose? In a concert hall, unless you can afford the best seats, you simply don't see the facial contortions, and even in those best seats they are generally much reduced in impact, compared to what you see on the screen. Anne-Sophie Mutter is a gorgeous-looking doll and a wonderful violinist, but I could well do without seeing her I-have-just-eaten-an-entire-orchard-of-lemons concert-playing face at close quarters.
 
I'm glad that rds mentioned violinists because we all know Einstein played violin rather well. This is the kind of emotion a violinist is prone to show?


einstein_tongue.jpg
 
Here's another great violin photo.
Look at the expression of intense concentration on Holmes' face.
Notice also the unorthodox way of holding the violin while playing.

sh20.jpg
 
Walcha-alkmaar-s.jpg


I meant this. I hope I get it right, this time.

Dear Bat: Yes ;)

Dear Tones:

I do not really think so. If this were the case, all musicians would pull faces, and, as I said, organists and most musicians do not. It is mostly the 'great stars' - that is, pianists, conductors, violinists that do it.

But of course TV exacerbates the problem. All musicians (except those who wish to show they are controlled) express themselves facially. From this to show that one is having an orgasm at every modulation there is a difference...

I never watched Mutter playing. Lemons are bitter: is that the cue?
 
It does seem to vary from person to person. Fine motor control may come into it with pianists and violinists, but some conductors seem to suffer from the same problem: I find Simon Rattle for example almost unwatchable as a result of his apparent belief that the entire orchestra consists of marionettes controlled through an intricate network of strings attached to his facial muscles; and I find Valery Gergiev a bit irritating too. Of course you don't usually have to endure this head on from the stalls, but the unnecessary body twitching can still be distracting. Perhaps this is why they have an Orchestra pit at the opera.

I find it either entertaining or unbearable -depending on the conductor- to sit in the choir seats in the Albert Hall which give you a very good view of the conductor. This may however provide the solution when attending concerts with an over-expressive violinist and a more acceptable conductor.

For me, this all pales into insignificance besides the humming problem. A couple of years ago I went to see Steven Kovacevic playing a late Schubert Piano sonata at the Cadogan hall. He made the most extraordinary noise -a bit like crunching gravel- which I could hear from row 15. Even the Radio 3 presenter could hardly keep a straight face. I am eternally indebted however to the small boy who pointed his finger and laughed whenever the noise started.
I have no idea whether this is a new problem developed by Mr Fisher in later life, but it does not feature on any of his CDs I have (Phillips or EMI). If it is possible to filter out this noise, then why is Glenn Gould's far less intrusive accompaniment left in on his recordings? Frankly I wish someone (else) had stood up and told him to shut up and start again.
 
Rodrigo de Sá said:
Dear Bat and Pete
There is, indeed, a lot of the shaman about pianists (and also singers, violinists and conductors).
Click to expand...

Conductors are magicians. They even have the magic stick, or baton.

But great thinkers play the violin. Could Holmes or Einstein play anything else? No. On the other hand, Vanessa Mae plays the violin too.

Mad scientists play the organ. Dracula plays the harpsichord or the organ.

Actor Jim Carrey would make a fine violinist or pianist since his face is very expressive.
 
Rodrigo de Sá said:
Strong words! You certainly do not hold your emotions!

Now come off it, Titian - do my posts suggest that I am short minded or have big inhibitions and that I am unfit for classical music??
Click to expand...
I don't see where you notice in my post emotions. In fact in this case I try to keep any emotions away. If anybody is using words which can imply emotions is you (ridiculous, obscene).
Yes your post does suggest me some sort of short minded or certain kind of inibitions. I would add that this sort of thing are common therefore also in me.
I just wonder why you have certain feelings to a point of calling them obscene. There must be something in you that causes that. it is certainly not a problem in Mitsuko Ushida.
 
Titian:

Every judgment made depends on the person making the judgment, not on the thing being judged.

So, of course I have a problem with Ushida, otherwise I would not have started this thread.

Of course everybody has inhibitions. But when you say that I have inhibitions and also that I am short minded I find, to put it mildly, that you are not being completely controlled unless courtesy is not in your priorities concerning control.

Nevertheless, lets not dwell upon it. I dont' like Ushida's expressions. I therefore say so. You are not bothered by Ushida's expressions; you don't have to say that I am short sighted: just explain why conveying emotions is important.

Discussions ought never to be ad hominem. If you think I am short minded you can pm me about it, ignore my posts or explain why.

Let's end this silly question and talk about music and musicians and not about personal characteristics of the posters.
 

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