Purchasing first serious hifi.

Well I've just recently gone for an upgrade similar to yourself.....and I spend several weeks going round hi-fi shops and listening to this and that.....

Me, I did not want to get blinded with price (expensive, so must be good mentality) I just said to the hi-fi guys I want a musical, accurate system because I hate analytical which sucks the musical enjoyment out of a recording, certainly to my ears.

Where I live, there is only really one decent hi-fi shop (Edinburgh)....and these guys in the main, only stock kit that sells....hi-fi to me does not need the sales man....just listen and when you are tapping your toe and you have a grin on your face, then you know you are getting there !!

I started with speakers.....and listened to Neat/Focal/Sonus Faber/B&W......and the list goes on.

When he brought into the dem room a pair of speaker by Living Voice (Auditoriums), my face lit up and I was truly amazed at the overall improvement in tone accuracy...in other words I felt the instruments sounded far far closer to how the would sound at a live gig.....I was sold at that point....stuck in Roger Waters - Amused to Death CD next and again, I had a silly grin on my face.....the bass lines sounded so much better...not too deep, but as they should be for the music ! So some 3 weeks later, I have my Auditoriums and over the last 2/3 weeks I've been running them in. Over the last few days the sound has improved with deeper bass and a wider sound stage.....and I am still in awe when you put in a decent recording....now, these bad boys do need space......my lounge is 18 feet by 12.....an I have them firing down the room 2 feet out from the wall, 8/9 feet apart and toed in a bit.......then sat back a good 10 feet from the front of the speaker and they sound their best.....and for me, I am very much getting a similar experience now that I had in the demo......and am very very happy with them !

I already had a good Simaudio Moon CD player......so all I needed was the Amp......and that is the last purchase I'm about to make......and I know a lot hear will recommend valves.....but I think modern solid state amps do the same job just as well.....that said I still have a few valve options to explore before I make a final call on it, but for the child friendly option (and my concern here is for the amp !) I will most likely go for a Moon 600i amp.....
 
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James_1D said:
Well I've just recently gone for an upgrade similar to yourself.....and I spend several weeks going round hi-fi shops and listening to this and that.....

Me, I did not want to get blinded with price (expensive, so must be good mentality) I just said to the hi-fi guys I want a musical, accurate system because I hate analytical which sucks the musical enjoyment out of a recording, certainly to my ears.

Where I live, there is only really one decent hi-fi shop (Edinburgh)....and these guys in the main, only stock kit that sells....hi-fi to me does not need the sales man....just listen and when you are tapping your toe and you have a grin on your face, then you know you are getting there !!

I started with speakers.....and listened to Neat/Focal/Sonus Faber/B&W......and the list goes on.

When he brought into the dem room a pair of speaker by Living Voice (Auditoriums), my face lit up and I was truly amazed at the overall improvement in tone accuracy...in other words I felt the instruments sounded far far closer to how the would sound at a live gig.....I was sold at that point....stuck in Roger Waters - Amused to Death CD next and again, I had a silly grin on my face.....the bass lines sounded so much better...not too deep, but as they should be for the music !

I already had a good Simaudio Moon CD player......so all I needed was the Amp......and that is the last purchase I'm about to make......and I know a lot hear will recommend valves.....but I think modern solid state amps do the same job just as well.....that said I still have a few valve options to explore before I make a final call on it, but for the child friendly option (and my concern here is for the amp !) I will most likely go for a Moon 600i amp.....
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That's interesting to hear. I've heard a lot of praise for Living Voice and the guy who owns / runs it, and it's definitely somewhere I'd like to visit before making any purchases.

The other manufacturers I'm curious to try are Audio Research and Lavardin, just a matter of finding a dealer.
 
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TheCherub said:
That's interesting to hear. I've heard a lot of praise for Living Voice and the guy who owns / runs it, and it's definitely somewhere I'd like to visit before making any purchases.

The other manufacturers I'm curious to try iare Audio Research and Lavardin, just a matter of finding a dealer.
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Well please please do listen to LV before you part with cash, it's all a personal preference, some like analytical and if you are one who does, then you may not like the LV sound. But given you've already dismissed some kit that I know to be analytical I suspect your not....and if your room cannot take LV's.....try a Focal stand mount option.....the only other speaker I might have parted with the cash for.

In terms of amp, I too was keen on hearing the Lavardin IT amp with my setup...but no local dealers :(
 
Cherub - it may be worth you taking a look at UKD website. They stock some very good brands but also have a 'sale' and 'ex-dem' section which can throw up some bargains.

You could visit and listen to some combinations. Or if you want to 'wing it' then distance selling does mean you can buy something, try it at home, and if it doesn't work out then you can return (of course this would cost you the cost of sending it back). Hopefully though with some guidence, they could help you find what you do enjoy so no returning would be needed.... but it is there as a safety net.

Would be worth being armed with your room dimensions, the sort of sound you like (kit you've enjoyed and what about them was it you liked) and the type of music you play most. Also what sort of volume you tend to listen at.

Whatever you go with - have fun! Enjoy the shopping and eventual purchase, don't feel you need to rush.
 
If you are in no particular hurry, then a visit to the Munich Hi-End show is well worth it, a huge show everything is there, really everything, Easy jet fly out early ,come back lateish, well worth it imho.
Keith.
 
There are some auditoriums on Ebay-

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/LIVING-VOICE-...ioVideoElectronics_HomeAudioHiFi_HiFiSpeakers

I know the seller, and have bought plenty from him before.


A word or 2 on warranty.

Much depends on the item in question. Lets talk amplifiers - I have had several faults occur (out of warranty) on both solid state and valve equipment. In all cases, the repair cost less than £50. Usually a resistor will blow, or some other very cheap part. A very expensive part may go if you're hugely unlucky, costing you a couple of hundred. This is very unlikely, it's in my experience always been a cap or a resistor, which just costs a few quid plus the labour.

In short, amp repairs (should you eventually need one)...... are cheap.

CD player repairs. Well. Much depends on the mechanism. They do annoying things like 'stop making them'.

One question you need to ask yourself is - do I want to go with the simplicity of putting a cd in a tray, or do I prefer the idea of storing all my music in a neighbouring room on the PC hard-drive, and wirelessly streaming it to the hifi.

This is what I personally do with a ''squeezebox''. It has a digital out, so you can plug it into a fancy DAC if you want to go for an ultimate solution. This means you can surf through all of your CD's, without having to leave your sofa.

If you live anywhere near Reading, you're welcome to see how this works.

Squeezebox - http://www.mysqueezebox.com/index/Home

I now surf through my CD collection setting up track or album playlists without even getting up. I play more of my music than before, because the organised list on the computer is easy to follow and easy to use... you need to experience it to see the benefit.

Also you may want to google 'Sonos' and if you have an apple PC, 'airport'.

These devices are inexpensive - an apple airport or squeezebox 3 is less than £250 in all cases. If you get your amp and speakers sorted, this is an extremely inexpensive option to try..
 
Well I already have both a Mac and a Windows box set up in another room, so the streaming / DAC route may not be terribly difficult to implement. Not looked at Squeezebox options, will have to have a look.

My primary decision on sound is more about amp / speakers than source though.

Edit: Just had a look on the Logitech site. Am I right in thinking that the Squeezebox connects to my DAC and then connects wirelessly to whichever computer I am using as a storage device?
 
I have 2 theories:

1 You can build a World Class About as Good as it Gets single source system for under £6k - 2k for source / amp / speakers.

2 Components that combine high end sound with relatively low prices are often the stuff that doesn't have a big hi-fi magazine nor hi-fi dealer presence. The relatively unknown stuff that has a cult following by the people who have heard it and compared it to more mainstream stuff.


Speakers. There are so many interesting speakers out there. Quad Electrostatics have that fantastic midrange. If you like them, buy them and enjoy them.
Yamaha NSM1000's and Tannoy GRF's? I'd love to bake them off against some big vintage speakers such as: Klipschorns, Altec A7's, Altec Model 19's, Electro Voice Sentrys, Bozak Concert Grands or Symphonys, Vitavox. For a more expensive speaker solution Avantgarde has a good reputation - again I'd love to bake these off against the vintage alternatives. Or for a fuss free solution you could do a lot worse than go down the active ATC route. I'm sure there are lots of other worthy speakers that have not been mentioned by me or anyone else in this thread so far...

Amplification. There's a school of thought that you should pick the amp first and then the speakers. This is something I'm investigating now with SET valve amplification and horned speakers. It'll be interesting to see how this compares to a more speaker first, amps second philosophy. Another route that I think works well is the pragmatic approach: bi-amp with ss for the bass and valves for the midrange and treble.

Source. Presumably the OP wants to stick with digital and not bother with vinyl? In which case, as the recent North London digital bake-off showed, PC seems to be the way to go instead of CD players.


And as Bottleneck has already quite rightly said go 2nd hand for the best value for money.


Also, if at all possible, go listen to other forum members systems. This is a very enjoyable way to find out the relative merits of various component combinations.
 
TheCherub said:
Well I already have both a Mac and a Windows box set up in another room, so the streaming / DAC route may not be terribly difficult to implement. Not looked at Squeezebox options, will have to have a look.

My primary decision on sound is more about amp / speakers than source though.

Edit: Just had a look on the Logitech site. Am I right in thinking that the Squeezebox connects to my DAC and then connects wirelessly to whichever computer I am using as a storage device?
Click to expand...


yes, that's it. It wirelessly streams from your wireless router on your PC. . or you can connect it by cable if you really want.
 
Quote

TheCherub said:
Well I already have both a Mac and a Windows box set up in another room, so the streaming / DAC route may not be terribly difficult to implement. Not looked at Squeezebox options, will have to have a look.

My primary decision on sound is more about amp / speakers than source though.

Edit: Just had a look on the Logitech site. Am I right in thinking that the Squeezebox connects to my DAC and then connects wirelessly to whichever computer I am using as a storage device?
Click to expand...

what dac do you have? if you want to try a "what i think" is a super dac is the m.f. M1, on sale or return, it is super, check it out on website.
 
nando said:
what dac do you have? if you want to try a "what i think" is a super dac is the m.f. M1, on sale or return, it is super, check it out on website.
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Nothing at the moment. I've heard the Naim DAC, but it didn't seem to add much over the CD5x to me, although that could have been due to the speakers it was through (ProAc Response D18s, which whilst tonally gorgeous aren't terribly articulate).

The M1 is certainly something I would consider listening to, as it's far from bank breaking.

I should probably stress as well, 10k seems to be roughly what I am headed at from what I have listened to so far. If I can get something I am happy with for less then I shall be very happy!!
 
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Unless you want music around the home ,I wouldn't choose a SB, I would connect my Mac directly to a dac, and control it with an ipod/iphone.
Keith.
 
nb - on the 'squeezebox' there is an audiophile version ''the transporter''.

many other audiophiles tinker with the insides.

some simply change the wall-wart for a better power supply (available off the shelf).

some use the output of the squeezebox, and shove it into a flashy DAC or CDP with a digital 'in'.

This makes it very flexible for upgrades, aswell as being very cheap to start with.

I cant reccomend them highly enough to get you going.

I want to try an M1 myself. I am curious. Musical Fidelity are a 'pain in the arse company' - because they bring out superb products and shit products too. This is my opinion of them over many years. Nando I am sure can tell you the difference between MF wheat and chaff..

Purite Audio sell the 'Weiss dac'' which many people very highly rate, but this is in a different price bracket to the more humble M1.

At the end of the day, as you mention getting the speakers and amp right is a priority.

Some used Kef reference, quads, or the living voice auditoriums for £700 all sound like bargains to me.

Don't forget the Dali 104 which is the predecessor for living voice speakers, and the speaker they are based on. If you see them on ebay, they go for ''taking the piss its so cheap'' prices because people don't know what they are. I've seen them go for under £150, although now I've written that it will probably go up :(

Amps?
I would get speakers that sound right in the room first, and then start down this trail..
 
You could buy a mac 'mini' and dedicate it to music, control it either with your other Mac or with an ipod/iphone perhaps?
Keith.
 
Basil said:
None of that stuff you mention is necessary for audio.
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I'm guessing you're not commenting from experience.

Engineering improvements make the same difference to a computer as they always have to digital transports. You might recall there was a bit of a flat-earther backlash when the first two-box CD players came out: "But the transport is only pushing noughts and ones: why is it so massively engineered, and expensive?"

You might want to have a stroll around the Computer Audiophile site . . .
 
With a chunky budget (that has many of us fantasy shopping on your behalf!), it might be helpful to systematically narrow your choices: audition some panel speakers, open-baffles, horns, actives, big passives, little passives: they all have distinctive strengths and weaknesses and you'll quickly form strong preferences.

Along the way, you'll probably discover in and out of kilter amplification matches, but you ought to consider some high-end Class D amplification along with the usual valved contenders.

If you go with one source, you can dedicate all your spend to power amps and skip the pre by going with a DAC + attenuator.

One really stunning off-the-shelf and very compact £8-9K system would be a well-tempered computer + Prism Orpheus DAC + Adam S3X-H active speakers and a single set of exotic interconnects. For transparency and resolution it would be hard to better.
 
You may also find that the best £1K you'll spend will be on the power supply and room treatment.
 
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I agree a Mac and a pair of active speakers, very neat system, and with a properly dithered software you can attenuate without losing resolution.
Keith.
 
There is a growing awareness that digital volume controls have been profoundly under-rated: we're hearing some very nice implementations now, whose minor flaws sound trivial by comparison with the lossy combination of preamp and additional interconnects.

Which means more budget for power amps, or active speakers. I could live with a pair of high-end Adam, Focal or Barefoot monitors welded to a decent DAC for a long time. In fact, for less than £3K (new) you can snag something very impressive if you already have a good computer transport. And it's a radio, too.
 

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