Record Stores: We're Fine, Thanks
- Thread starter auric
- Start date
My suspicion is that the RIAA etc recognise the potential for making money from legalised downloading music from the internet as long as it is cartel that they own and control. The legal argument is to more to do with gaining control of this exclusive right to sale music via the internet. Copyright law is a very good argument to use to extend this right to sale their product in this manner. The nature of internet is you need to create a copy of the music before you could replay it. Further more there is a way to document that you have done so. Compare this to the older technology like radio/TV. Lots of people may tape materials as well but there is no easy way to document this activity and keep track of it to reclaim a payment. Now they could but they have to stack a claim for the exclusive right so that in future when technology to charge for each and every single downloads is available they could then invoke this legally. Clever.
amazingtrade
Mad Madchestoh fan
All you need to do is go to Music Zone in Manchester on a saturday afternoon its packed with loads of people buying their cheap CDs. The internet has bought prices of CDs right down, many recent albums cost less than £5 now. It was only four years ago we would pay nearly that for a single.
Any self respecting music fan would surely rather have hard product rather than an MP3 file?
Any self respecting music fan would surely rather have hard product rather than an MP3 file?
MO!
MOnkey`ead!
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I've come across MOre new music - and followed alot of it up and bought some of the stuff - since having the net available than ever before. I'd say as much as 80% of what I've purchased over the last year or two have been things I've come across on the net, and listened to.
I admit there's things i've downloaded and then not gone onto buy the original....... but that's normaly because it's crap, or it's just waiting in the queue, which is growing faster than my bank balance can handle
As said above, owning the original is obviously prefered to a downloaded copy.
There's a lot of talk about how, because people are downloading music, they'd probably be willing to pay for it. Many people would rather just download select tracks £0.99 a tune etc etc....
If I'm honest, I don't think I would/will be up for that. I use it to discover and experiment with new music. The fact that I can do this without having to fork out is the reason I've been able to come across so much new music with it. If everytime I seen an artist who slightly caught my attention, I wouldn't be willing to fork out to get a decent listen. I'd rather be able to explore without having to pay out, and go from there. If I like it, I'll pay out for the original.
I'm sure there'd be instances where I might be willing to pay for an individual download. I like what warp records have done. They're looking to make their entire catalogue available. That includes alot of raraties. Things that were available on limited vinyl pressings and such.
I admit there's things i've downloaded and then not gone onto buy the original....... but that's normaly because it's crap, or it's just waiting in the queue, which is growing faster than my bank balance can handle
As said above, owning the original is obviously prefered to a downloaded copy.
There's a lot of talk about how, because people are downloading music, they'd probably be willing to pay for it. Many people would rather just download select tracks £0.99 a tune etc etc....
If I'm honest, I don't think I would/will be up for that. I use it to discover and experiment with new music. The fact that I can do this without having to fork out is the reason I've been able to come across so much new music with it. If everytime I seen an artist who slightly caught my attention, I wouldn't be willing to fork out to get a decent listen. I'd rather be able to explore without having to pay out, and go from there. If I like it, I'll pay out for the original.
I'm sure there'd be instances where I might be willing to pay for an individual download. I like what warp records have done. They're looking to make their entire catalogue available. That includes alot of raraties. Things that were available on limited vinyl pressings and such.
nsherin
In stereo nirvana...
I'm one of those who will generally go out and buy the original CD or S/H vinyl if I like an album. I do admittedly use Kazza now and again to download the odd single or track where I don't want to buy the whole album.
HMV's sales aren't bad at the moment - I picked up '40 Licks' by the Rolling Stones today for £12.99 - down from £20.99. Also managed to replace my Stones' 'Flashpoint' CD (this is an excellent live concert, BTW) - there's a big scratch that causes tracks 15 and 16 to skip madly, with both my NAD CDP / Pioneer DVD. Cost to replace? A fiver - you can't go wrong there! I also managed to get about 4 Jean Michel Jarre albums I was after to fill gaps in my collection a couple of weeks ago for about £23.
Again - I don't mind paying out for CDs/LPs if the price is reasonoble. Getting a TT was definately a good idea over a year go - I've managed to get quite a few albums cheaply that never made it to CD and will pay out now and again for a rare album - case in point being The Travelling Wilbury's - Vol. 1. Granted, it cost £20, but when you consider some of their singles go for £80 or more on eBay, it was quite a bargain really.
HMV's sales aren't bad at the moment - I picked up '40 Licks' by the Rolling Stones today for £12.99 - down from £20.99. Also managed to replace my Stones' 'Flashpoint' CD (this is an excellent live concert, BTW) - there's a big scratch that causes tracks 15 and 16 to skip madly, with both my NAD CDP / Pioneer DVD. Cost to replace? A fiver - you can't go wrong there! I also managed to get about 4 Jean Michel Jarre albums I was after to fill gaps in my collection a couple of weeks ago for about £23.
Again - I don't mind paying out for CDs/LPs if the price is reasonoble. Getting a TT was definately a good idea over a year go - I've managed to get quite a few albums cheaply that never made it to CD and will pay out now and again for a rare album - case in point being The Travelling Wilbury's - Vol. 1. Granted, it cost £20, but when you consider some of their singles go for £80 or more on eBay, it was quite a bargain really.
I know this shows my age but I use the wireless a lot and must admit that after hearing something intresting I often attempt to look for the physical good with a view to buying. Something physical be it silver or black is still an object to own, show to friends, count and catalogue. I know an impressive DIR showing lots of MP3 or whatever looks good but you can't pass the cover art around after a few beers but on the other hand you can't scratch an MP3 after a shit load of Young's Winter Warmer.
Listen before you buy - yes, in the longterm this looks like a Win - Win for all concerned.
Auric
Listen before you buy - yes, in the longterm this looks like a Win - Win for all concerned.
Auric
since being able to dowmload mp3's, I have bought more cd's and I agree that it allows the opportunity to audition stuff that I would not otherwise buy. MP3 is fine for playing on the computer or on holiday but IMO not up to scratch for proper listening. However, I am sure that the vast majority of downloaders have no intention of buying the pucker goods. I can't say that I have much sympathy for the record companies who have in particular ripped off the British public. The last time I went to the usa cd's were much cheaper. However, I accept they have to make a profit to ensure that new acts get a chance. I am not prepared to pay 99p or even 50p per track for lower quality reproduction.
Rod
Rod
I agree, they'll have to do a lot better than the crap 128k files these companies are trying to sell at the minute to get me to find them. Most things are already available in at least 192k format (usually higher) for free.
amazingtrade
Mad Madchestoh fan
I tried to listen to a radio stream tonight in 96kbps (the highest quality on offer) it sounded so shite. My FM radio will be in use until analgoue is turned off then I just use my digital TV setupbox.
I have been making some MP3's today for a program I am making and I was surprised how good they sounded considering I am using a cheap sound card. It was no where near CD as it did not have the subtly but it was in no means bad. It was certainly better than FM.
I have been making some MP3's today for a program I am making and I was surprised how good they sounded considering I am using a cheap sound card. It was no where near CD as it did not have the subtly but it was in no means bad. It was certainly better than FM.
joel
Shaman of Signals
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Wolfgang, you have made a very good point there. The RIAA seems to be in a kind of holding pattern at the moment, this perhaps* points to them doing two things:
a) Creating the right regulatory environment, as noted in your post, and
b) Waiting for the right technology that will allow them them to lock down downloadable music, tight.
It might never happen. Then again, it may.
*This is all quite speculative
Seems like I am not the only one who see conspiracy in everything. It is speculation of course.
It is certainly true a section of music lovers who will prefer to buy a physical copy of a recording with nice photo of singer on the cover. However, they not targeting us. I am beginning to meet a group of young people who are happier with holding a collection of music in a hardisk or Ipod like device. They will never understood our need to collect a large shelf of CDs/LPs.
If in the future the version availble in the internet is actually of higher resolution then CD/LP what would you perfer?
Hifi as we know it seems to be changing. I am not sure if the main source will still be a form of disk spinner or a PC based device with a large built in hard-disk. For me it is certainly interesting time ahead.
It is certainly true a section of music lovers who will prefer to buy a physical copy of a recording with nice photo of singer on the cover. However, they not targeting us. I am beginning to meet a group of young people who are happier with holding a collection of music in a hardisk or Ipod like device. They will never understood our need to collect a large shelf of CDs/LPs.
If in the future the version availble in the internet is actually of higher resolution then CD/LP what would you perfer?
Hifi as we know it seems to be changing. I am not sure if the main source will still be a form of disk spinner or a PC based device with a large built in hard-disk. For me it is certainly interesting time ahead.
DRM, Who sets the standards?
Tend to agree with the points raised by both wolfgang & joel.
/Put on tinfoil hat
If I remember correctly Microsoft / Intel plan to implement a form of Digital Rights Management on new machines, my fear is that the protocol for the rights management will be set to something like;
DRM = ââ'¬Å"Microsoftââ'¬Â
DRM = ââ'¬Å"Microsoft & Friendsââ'¬Â
DRM = ââ'¬Å"RIAAââ'¬Â
DRM = ââ'¬Å"Slightly less strict RIAA but still very strictââ'¬Â
The following protocols are not allowed and will not run on this or any machine - by the way the DRM is in the BIOS so you can't bypass it Ha, Ha, Ha. . .;
DRM = NULL
DRM = ââ'¬Å"ââ'¬Â
DRM = ââ'¬Å"any non-standard DRM"
/Remove tinfoil hat
Auric
Tend to agree with the points raised by both wolfgang & joel.
/Put on tinfoil hat
If I remember correctly Microsoft / Intel plan to implement a form of Digital Rights Management on new machines, my fear is that the protocol for the rights management will be set to something like;
DRM = ââ'¬Å"Microsoftââ'¬Â
DRM = ââ'¬Å"Microsoft & Friendsââ'¬Â
DRM = ââ'¬Å"RIAAââ'¬Â
DRM = ââ'¬Å"Slightly less strict RIAA but still very strictââ'¬Â
The following protocols are not allowed and will not run on this or any machine - by the way the DRM is in the BIOS so you can't bypass it Ha, Ha, Ha. . .;
DRM = NULL
DRM = ââ'¬Å"ââ'¬Â
DRM = ââ'¬Å"any non-standard DRM"
/Remove tinfoil hat
Auric
ilockyer
rockin' in the free world
There are bargains out there to be had, both in the stores and on-line. Responses to this thread have proved that. OK, so we're all into music and more likely to go out of our way to locate stuff we want than a lot of people, but even so, the mass market stores like HMV and Virgin now have constant "sales" which get people through the door.
The ability to download, or play online, and audition music is a great thing to have. Admittedly, I don't use it much since I've only got dial-up connection, but I probably would given the opportunity. I do think however that a vast majority of people will download and burn albums rather than pay for them. A mutual friend of HenryT, lhatkins, Dom and myself does this on a fairly regular basis, that or with library CDs, with next to no intention of ever buying the originals. You wouldn't bother downloading artwork if you were going to buy the product!
A lot of artists are beginning to really start to use the web to great effect, the American jam band scene is particularly good evidence of this, selling live recordings, albums etc. through their own websites rather than a link to somewhere. It's keeping prices down for the fans and giving them what they want.
Long live the record shop! It's good that there's enough of us out there to keep them going.
The ability to download, or play online, and audition music is a great thing to have. Admittedly, I don't use it much since I've only got dial-up connection, but I probably would given the opportunity. I do think however that a vast majority of people will download and burn albums rather than pay for them. A mutual friend of HenryT, lhatkins, Dom and myself does this on a fairly regular basis, that or with library CDs, with next to no intention of ever buying the originals. You wouldn't bother downloading artwork if you were going to buy the product!
A lot of artists are beginning to really start to use the web to great effect, the American jam band scene is particularly good evidence of this, selling live recordings, albums etc. through their own websites rather than a link to somewhere. It's keeping prices down for the fans and giving them what they want.
Long live the record shop! It's good that there's enough of us out there to keep them going.
So the debate continues.
Quote from article from Stereophile website. Stereophile Link
Quote: Last year, album sales rose 7.85% in Australia, but CD singles declined 16.5%. Rather than celebrate its overall success, the ARIA chose to emphasize the drop in singles because that statistic bolsters its campaign against file-sharing. And even the singles figure is misleading, [broadcaster Steve] Cannane argues, because the recording industry isn't issuing as many singles as it once did. "In the US," he states, "singles have virtually disappeared from sale." Music fans over the age of 45ââ'¬â€in other words, those with disposable incomeââ'¬â€tend to buy more CDs after hearing new recordings via file sharing, in Cannane's view.
If accurate, his take on the situation supports the sentiment often expressed in this publication that "downloads are the greatest promotional tool ever devised." As Cannane puts it, "Maybe it's the record industry that's getting a free ride from file sharingââ'¬â€a massive marketing system that allows music lovers to get exposed to all kinds of music without the record industry having to pay a cent."
Quote from article from Stereophile website. Stereophile Link
Quote: Last year, album sales rose 7.85% in Australia, but CD singles declined 16.5%. Rather than celebrate its overall success, the ARIA chose to emphasize the drop in singles because that statistic bolsters its campaign against file-sharing. And even the singles figure is misleading, [broadcaster Steve] Cannane argues, because the recording industry isn't issuing as many singles as it once did. "In the US," he states, "singles have virtually disappeared from sale." Music fans over the age of 45ââ'¬â€in other words, those with disposable incomeââ'¬â€tend to buy more CDs after hearing new recordings via file sharing, in Cannane's view.
If accurate, his take on the situation supports the sentiment often expressed in this publication that "downloads are the greatest promotional tool ever devised." As Cannane puts it, "Maybe it's the record industry that's getting a free ride from file sharingââ'¬â€a massive marketing system that allows music lovers to get exposed to all kinds of music without the record industry having to pay a cent."
