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In the James Randi thing, are power conditioners allowed/used? I would have thought, as the article suggests, that considering the long runs before the plug socket, that a lead on its own is not much good. However, if you filter/re-construct the power and then send it through different cables, you might notice the difference between them more easily.
 
angi73 said:
Hoho!, and is he aware that that is considered a "cheap" aftermarket powercable.
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I emailed him with links to here (and the relevant threads), plus PFM and WigWam.

I suggested he might like to join and invite attendees. I also mentioned the Nordost Valhalla price. If he's surprised at £30... well.
 
Hi,

Tenson said:
In the James Randi thing, are power conditioners allowed/used?
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You would have to aks Mr. "Illusionist" Randi that.

Tenson said:
I would have thought, as the article suggests, that considering the long runs before the plug socket, that a lead on its own is not much good.
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That MAY seem superficially reasonable, but it shows that the columns Title "Bad Science" is completely appropriate and the writer a completely ignorant blue meany (the ones discovered just at the end of "Yellow Submarine") and should be send to retake EE101. Please consider the noise current loops which include the chassis, mains cables and interconnections.

They do not include "the long runs before the plug socket", do they now?

Tenson said:
However, if you filter/re-construct the power and then send it through different cables, you might notice the difference between them more easily.
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The issues around mains cables are mainly down to common mode and differential mode impedance and aerial effects. What that means is that Mains cables need a screen (to lower inductance as much as possible) and ferrite clamps or ferrite loaded jackets (Eupen) to reduce RFI pickup....

Ciao T
 
Thorston - I have to emphasise my thread was NOT started in the hope we would start discussing cables. :eek:

I was amused to find the subject had made it out of the "box" and the purpose for this thread was to suggest those who agree and those who disagree with him might contact him with their views and opinions. I dont think he has any idea what he's got himself into by inviting comment.

I'd also be interested if anyone here would propose to participate, or even just discuss with him the concepts of participation, rules of engagement, etc.

I would recommend you send your above comments to him. I'd be interested in his response.
 
There are far more serious issues such as how a transformer behaves when it is fed a non sine wave or where there is a higher voltage being fed due to dc offset, outside the range the transformer operates, or the frequency of the sine wave not being correct or fluctuating and so on.

All of the above are detrimental to the performance, and all are problems in practise usually to a great extent, since many hi end amps and equipment use very simple and basic power supplies, which are susceptible to all of the above.

cables cannot fix these problems. To be frank, they cannot be fixed directly.

Now ask yourselves whether its worth spending hundreds of pounds on that beautiful braided mains cable.
 
Hi,

greg said:
Thorston - I have to emphasise my thread was NOT started in the hope we would start discussing cables. :eek:
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I was not discussing cables per se, I was mainly commenting on the appaling state of what seems to pass for journalism these days in the guardian. It seems they can be merged safely with News of the World, as their reporting appears about as factual....

:D

greg said:
I was amused to find the subject had made it out of the "box" and the purpose for this thread was to suggest those who agree and those who disagree with him might contact him with their views and opinions. I dont think he has any idea what he's got himself into by inviting comment.
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I have no interrest to contact anyone whose "research" is as shoddy as that and who writes publically about subjects he is deeply ignorant about....

Ciao T
 
If he knows about James Randi he must know something of the subject.

Edit: This was in response to him being surprised by more expensive cables and not knowing what he got himself into.
 
Hi,

Johnny said:
There are far more serious issues such as how a transformer behaves when it is fed a non sine wave or where there is a higher voltage being fed due to dc offset, outside the range the transformer operates, or the frequency of the sine wave not being correct or fluctuating and so on.
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A competently implemented powersupply is immune to such issues. The Supply implemented in the upcomming products I have had a big hand in (AMR CD-77 CD Player and AM-77 Amplifier) can tolerate easily > 10% THD on the mains, several volt DC offset, rapidly or slowly changing mains frequency and +15%/-20% variations of the nominal mains voltage without consequence and that while not employing any regulation excepting for digital circuits. It is actually quite trivial to do and only costs a few dollar per unit in parts etc, though development cost is not small of course.

Johnny said:
cables cannot fix these problems. To be frank, they cannot be fixed directly.
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Cables cannot fix THESE problems, but the CAN resolve others, which you forgot to mention and which imapct DIRECTLY on the signal circuit, not second or third hand through the powersupply or even after applying modern regulated suplies.

As to "can they be fixed directly"? The answer is: "of course". We currently are considering to package the same technology we build into our own gear as standalone mains conditioner for those who own gear where the manufacturer could not be bothered to do a decent job.

Johnny said:
Now ask yourselves whether its worth spending hundreds of pounds on that beautiful braided mains cable.
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I am not sure what either cost or braiding have to do with the topic. Any potential difference developed across the mains cables (for example from high inductance) must be nulled out via the interconnect where the finitly low impedance of the return will in all unbalanced connectiosn cause error voltages to appear in series with the signal, causing hum, buzz and other problems.

This implies that a mains cable feeding unbalanced interconnected equipment (and where balanced connections are direct-coupled and not floating secondary transformer output) need to comply with certain requirements regarding their electrical parameters in addition to these needed for electrical safety.

I notice your argument again claims that a specific effect takes precedence over all others and makes any other changes inaudible, something that not only is factually wrong but also ill considered especially in the context of how you approach the mains side. It may have some superficial relevance in interconnect/speaker cables WRT room effects (even though this makes the highly errouneous assumption that all cables effect is the frequency response), but is wildely and obviously off the mark WRT to the mains issues you have raised...

Please re-take EE101.

Ciao T
 
Can you explain why capacitance of the interconnect for line input affects the audio signal ?

It's erroneous to model the basic filters ,on sine waves since the actual signal applied will be far more complex.

When I do come over to evaluate your system(s),realise that I may not be in favor of the setup, for example, your room is not symmetrical, nor has it been designed specifically to accomodate your speakers.
 
Hi,

Johnny said:
Can you explain why capacitance of the interconnect for line input affects the audio signal ?
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Of course I CAN (and have done so, read my articles in TNT-Audio). But can you?

Johnny said:
When I do come over to evaluate your system(s),realise that I may not be in favor of the setup, for example, your room is not symmetrical, nor has it been designed specifically to accomodate your speakers.
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And? Quite frankly, I don't partiulary care. In addtion, please do not expect an "Audition" as you get in a shop or anything of the like. I am not interested in convincing anyone of anything, demonstrating anything or the like. My system exists to enjoy music....

Johnny said:
what do you mean retake EE101 ?
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As in EE101 - Introduction to Electrical Fundamentals.

L8er T
 
Johnny said:
There are far more serious issues such as how a transformer behaves when it is fed a non sine wave or where there is a higher voltage being fed due to dc offset, outside the range the transformer operates, or the frequency of the sine wave not being correct or fluctuating and so on.

All of the above are detrimental to the performance, and all are problems in practise usually to a great extent, since many hi end amps and equipment use very simple and basic power supplies, which are susceptible to all of the above.

cables cannot fix these problems. To be frank, they cannot be fixed directly.

Now ask yourselves whether its worth spending hundreds of pounds on that beautiful braided mains cable.
Click to expand...
What an irrelevant post. Why dont you send these comments to Ben at Bad Science instead of using every inappropriate opportunity to say things which some or many have said before and act like what you're saying is an epiphany. Oh and while you're on why dont you participate (in the real sense) in some of the threads you started instead of dodging questions and going silent when things dont suit you?
 
Thorsten - please dont indulge Johnny in his petty griping here. He's got unanswered questions to attend to elsewhere and this will just distract him.
 
Yes I think Johnny has a lot of questions he should be concentrating on, from other threads.

Its actually quite sad that repeated attemps have been made to have a dialogue with Johnny only to be rebuffed. Now he's bounced into this thread.

Most of his cable critisisms could be easily demonstrated to him if has even half decent kit.....but we will never know.
 
lordsummit said:
I suspect most of us have come across Johnny in other guises.... The inability to discuss is certainly rather familiar, as are some of the arguments
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Would you suggest a candidate (or two?).
 
Well that good .....johnny. Are your arguing from a hypothetical point of view ? Many people on this forum have only so so gear [I include myself in that] but we get a great deal of pleasure from it. It might suprise you that some of the differences you seem to think can't exist ...from a hypothetical point of view, are clearly audible. I of course include cables in this. There are a number of users of this forum who can't hear the difference ..and thats good too. Regardless of what you may hear [or hypothetically hear] a good many people can tell the difference between lengths of conductor be it main or signal.
 
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