Shostakovich no.11

leonard smalls

leonard smalls

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All I can say is wow!
Got the Rostropovich with the LSO live at the Barbican version - couldn't believe it.. I sat there for a full 72 minutes without moving, apart from the occasional flinch when the kettle drums came in and the sofa vibrated back 6inches.
If you want heavy classical, this is the one...
Anyone with more suggestions on decent, not too atonal but pumpin' classical? BTW, I got Mahler no.5 the other day, cracking but not quite up to the Shostakovich..
 
Hi "Leonard" - long time no speak.

The other 14? :D

No 11 is actually one of his more restrained :eek: (and particularly that recording - although now I remember I first heard that from about a floor away at the Heathrow show last year. You could try his 4th, 8th or 10th for something a bit meatier. 10th is generally considered his best - manages to avoid the mind-boggling banalities he normally sticks right next to the most sublime and searing passages. I don't have 4 (the Rattle/CBSO on EMI seems to get good reports), but have excellent versions by Jarvi/SNO on Chandos for 10, and Previn/LSO on EMI for 8 (mine's actually a black bin-lid). I particularly love Previn's blisteringly fast scherzo - inspired by machine-gun fire during the battle of Stalingrad (which pretty much is what this symphony's about). Mravinsky/Leningrad are supposed to be pretty much out in front if you can take the rather dodgy 1960 Russian sound. Titian is the Shosta expert here though.

Others you may like to try in similar vein are:
Prokofiev 5 (Karajan/BPO) and 6 (Jarvi/SNO). Also his ballet "Romeo and Juliet" - Maazel/Cleveland on a Double Decca are wonderful, although the suites give you the highlights in less time.

Stravinsky "Rite of Spring", or "Firebird" for something a bit lighter I recently bought the Dorati/LSO version of Firebird on Mercury Living Presence (1959, UK recording) and it's out of this world - he absolutely transforms a piece that can sometimes seem a bit drab in lesser hands while waiting for the really famous bits at the end - every note is filled with life and fire.

Maybe if Mahler 5 was a bit tame you should try "his" 10th (with a lot of finishing off by Dereck Cooke). Rattle/Berlin gets the plaudits here, although I have a Wigglesworth/BBCNOW off of BBC Music mag that it also superb. The 9th is much more contemplative/valedictory, but probably (along with Das Lied von der Erde) his crowning achievement. If you like the sound of the "LSO Live" series (I'm not convinced myself) there's also the new Jansons/LSO 6 they're all raving about at the moment.

For the really monumental (but less adventurous harmonically) try Bruckner's 4th or 8th (e.g. from Wand/Berlin on RCA), or 7th (Karajan/VPO from 1989?).

Sticking with the slightly atonal you could always try Bernstein's own symphonies. I love the 1st, although there is a mezzo singing verses from the Lamentations of Jeremiah - so maybe not to everyone's taste. There's a good version of 1 and 2, along with the absolutely magical Chichester Psalms, on DG with him in front of the Israel Phil and the Vienna Boys Choir (the LP misses off Symph 2).
 
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Hi "Leonard",
Sorry but I don't understand really what you liked about the 11th. Did you like it because it is a "heavy classical" or for the power and special physical "feelings" you get when listening to it (pumpin' classical)?

Graham described better than I could Shostakovich's best symphonies.
I would add the no. 12 and maybe 5. I wouldn't be bother much with Shostakovich's dissonances which in my case after a few times listening disappeared. I don't know if others had this same experience.

Prokofiev's "Romeo and Juliet" is my favourite ballet. I prefer the whole ballet than the suites just like I prefer to hear the whole Wagner's Ring than, for example, 'the ring without words' (orchestral excerpts from Lorin Maazel).
I woudn't agree even that in the suites you have the highlight but I suppose it is a personal matter.

And what about Tschaikowsky's 4th and 5th symphonies? Give them a try, quite powerful.
 
Leonard - forgot to say that Rite of Spring was on R3 from the Proms tonight. Pretty wonderful performance by the Berlin Phil(although stressing the mystical element rather than the visceral). Will be repeated 2pm on Tuesday. You may want to be careful about this and avoid the Ligeti Vln Conc that came on just before - the Rite will probably start about 3:00-3:10.

There's also a repeat of last Friday's Tchaik 4 from the Pittsburg SO (which was pretty full-on and plenty of yankee punch) at 2pm (more like 2:30) on Monday. Unfortunately they don't seem to be repeating the rather good Mahler 1 they gave the following day.
 
Originally posted by titian
Hi "Leonard",
Sorry but I don't understand really what you liked about the 11th. Did you like it because it is a "heavy classical" or for the power and special physical "feelings" you get when listening to it (pumpin' classical)?

Click to expand...
Hi Titian!
I think I liked it because it conjured up images of the 1905 massacre so well - film music without the film perhaps...
Or perhaps because it moved the sofa so easily - I'm always impressed by grunt, sad v-twin lover that I am.
As for LSO Live sound quality - was impressed by the bandwidth, less so with the soundstage, and a little freaked out by the musician's chair creaking up on the left somewhere. Thought we had a ghost!

And cheers for the suggestions (Graham too - did you finally settle on speakers after the Wilsons?) - shall check out the other Shostas.. Got the Bruckner by the way, enjoyed it immensely; but found the Tchaickovsky 4&5 to be (and I must apologise for saying this :D) a little dull and predictable. Perhaps I listen to too much free jazz!
And BTW, I shall never buy owt featuring the Vienna Boys Choir.. Too many bad memories of being dragged to see them aged 8..
 
I came across a complete Shostakovich symphonies by Rudolf Barshai. It's on Brilliant Classics (therefore cheap) and I feel the need to support a neighbour (he now lives in Ramlinsburg, next village down the valley from us), but is it any good? I think Barshai is somewhat of an exponent of the more recent Russians. Anyone know?
 
Originally posted by tones
I came across a complete Shostakovich symphonies by Rudolf Barshai. It's on Brilliant Classics (therefore cheap) and I feel the need to support a neighbour (he now lives in Ramlinsburg, next village down the valley from us), but is it any good? I think Barshai is somewhat of an exponent of the more recent Russians. Anyone know?
Click to expand...

Tones, you cannot count on me on this one but if you feel like supporting me you can send the CDs to me. :D :D
 
Hey, c'mon, fella, with that gear and that collection, you should be supporting me!!
 
I've not heard the Barshai set myself, but everything I've read about it is very positive; maybe not the top recommendation for any individual symphony, but not far off, and unbeatable value. There's a discussion thread here which will probably leave you more confused than enlightened, and another one here.

Leonard - tend to agree with you on Tchaik 4&5, too much bluster to too little effect. 6 (Pathetique) is a different kettle of worms though (although not really the pumpin' heavy stuff you're after). Glad you liked the Bruckner - looks like we may get you on to Strauss (Rattle/BPO did an absolutely fantastic Heldenleben tonight - repeated R3 2pm Weds) and Wagner before long :D .

I forgot you're into serious noise - if you want something really mad though that should shake the fillings of those Dittons try Varese "Ameriques" (Rite of Spring with attitude - and NY Fire Dept klaxons) and Charles Ives 4th symphony (needs two conductors it's so complicated). Dohnanyi/Cleveland on Decca 443 172-2.

Speakers - Tone dropped by around Xmas on his way back to JJ with a pair of Meadowlark Heron-Is he'd turned his nose up at. They didn't make it back to JJ's. Now got a fantastic amp to go with them, so I'm a very happy bunny (despite sideshow's repeatedly tempting me towards the dark-plastic side)
 
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Cheers Graham - I'll check the Ives and Varese..
And glad you've moved away from that high street hifi tat ( ;) ) - stick something like a Border Patrol or Hovland pre on that set-up and you'll be happy as a dog in wotsit..
 
Originally posted by tones
I came across a complete Shostakovich symphonies by Rudolf Barshai. is it any good? Anyone know?
Click to expand...


It is outstanding. Mravinsky is better, though. DSCH 11 is definitely one best heard live: no stereo can ever possibly reproduce the power of the tuttis in this symphony. Only after experiencing it live can one fully understand what DSCH was writing about. Be warned though: opt for tenth row seats at the closest if ever you hear it live. I was in row five or so when I atteneded a concert earlier this year and was overwhelmed by the sheer volume. (The conductor was James DePreist, who has already recorded it, and the performance I heard was recorded for future release. It was superb.)
 
Just bought Shostakovich 5&9 conducted by Haitink- cracking!
Seem to hold together more than 11 as complete works. And only £5!
Also bought Strauss's Symphonie Domestique (no not the cross between Lloyd Webber and SClub7 but Richard..).. Not as good as the Shosta imho, apart from the Peregeum (or whathever the piano addendum at the end was called), which was seriously pumpin' - almost at Suicidal Tendencies' level!!!
 
At that price, Leonard, you might also want to try the Shostakovich 6th recorded by Haitink, or the 8th.

In this Decca / Haitink series the Concertgebouw recordings tend to be very very good.

Herman
 
Leonard, the best thing to do is to buy the complete symphonies with Haitink, Barshai and Kondrashin. Then you can listen to them all and say thousand times cracking! :D

Herman, in the Decca / Haitink series you say the Concertgebow recordings tend to be very very good. Is there any recordings of the Concertgebow you don't like? :D I suppose you are underestimating when you say very very good :D
 
easy

CD-era Concertgebouw recordings I distinctly dislike? Haitink's Beethoven cycle on Philips: the playing is too big, and the hall resonance smears the textures. Same with Chailly's Stravinsky efforts - with the exception of a stellar Petrushka. I don't like Chailly's Bruckner cycle either.

I have the Schubert symphonies by Harnoncourt, and I never ever play them, so I guess I don't like them. OTOH I do like his Haydn London symphos.

In the Shostakovich cycle you clearly have a world-class orchestra playing with absolute commitment, even though the hall resonance is a bit over the top in Shostakovich 5th, too. That's why the 6th is my favorite piece in the Haitink cycle.

Obviously I live close by, and you don't, but that doesn't change the fact that the Concertgebouw and the London Phil just aren't in the same league. Wouldn't you agree there's a drop in the level of playing and ensemble beauty when the LPO takes over? Except for the 15th, which is a top disc. Just imagine what it would've been like if the Concertgebouw had recorded this symphony, too!

Herman
 
Titian went into a CD store

Today after work I was in Zurich and had half an hour spare, so I decided to visit Tones. Reading his many postings I came to the conclusion that he must be living in the CD store Hug which is, as he wrote very many times, about 100 meters from the main railway station.
I looked all over the place but no sign of tones so I decided to look at those boxes full of those funny round discs.
Then I found something interesting: Shostakovich' symphonies with Barschai for about 20£. Then I remembered this thread and I bought it.
I already heared 2 symphonies superficially and I must say that they are well done not only from the musical point of view but also from the quality of the recordings. Of course I heard better recordings but for it's price it is absolutety a bargain.

Though I couldn't resist after a few hours of CD-Shostakovich to switch back to LPs (Bach's Cantatas, Rillings). Even if Tones told me that they are quite badly recorded I must say the first LP sounded technically better than Shostakovich's symphonies on CD.

Graham, when I finally finished my search for a phono stage and when I upgraded my satellites, I will invite you here again. There seems to be a brilliant phono stage with 32 valves, but a few friends of mine must still do some tests on it before it will be tested my Nestorovic. Only if he highly recommends it, I will think about buying it... (something for Lee? :D )
 
Funnily enough - I went looking for that set today. One of the local Chemist/Drugstore chains sells them from time to time, and they have been spotted recently for £2.99 for the box. My local one didn't have those, but I ended up with another set of Wagner's Ring (Neuhold/Badische Staatskapelle) for......£4.99!!! That's about 30p/hr (and no Tones....you don't need to add that it'll seem like only 10p/hr :p ).
 
bruckner

In Holland, jome of the Kruitvat drugstore chain, Brilliant is currently selling a 10 cd box with the complete Bruckner symphonies in the excellent late seventies EMI recording by Eugen Jochum and the Dresdener Staatskapelle (18.99 euro), and they are still stocking truckloads of the Beethoven Quartets by the Alban Berg Quartet (which however can be obtained in a slim and cheap EMI box, too).

Herman
 
Re: Titian went into a CD store

Originally posted by titian
Today after work I was in Zurich and had half an hour spare, so I decided to visit Tones. Reading his many postings I came to the conclusion that he must be living in the CD store Hug which is, as he wrote very many times, about 100 meters from the main railway station.


Even if Tones told me that they are quite badly recorded I must say the first LP sounded technically better than Shostakovich's symphonies on CD.

Click to expand...

(a) I wish, I wish... Alas, I only pollute Musik Hug en route home to Basel in the evenings

(b) I didn't say that all were badly recorded, but some are. The problem is that the Rilling cantatas were recorded intermittently over a long period of time, something like 20 years, and on a number of different labels (Hänssler eventually collected them). So far as I know, Rilling started out without the intention of recording them all, but ended up doing just that. As a result, the recording quality is very variable, starting with what was available in the sixties and ending up with digital recording in the eighties. I've found some that are irritatingly bad, with a "halo" around the choral voices and with over-rich-sounding instrumentation (or have I just got used to "original" instrument versions, such as Gardiner, Herreweghe and Suzuki?). Perhaps I have been a victim of CD-transferitis and perhaps your LPs may sound better.
 
You can't beat a voyage of discovery!!
Thanks to Graham, I've now got Varese "Ameriques" with Pierre Boulez at the helm.. Due to a functionless left amp (i.e. it doesn't work due to a blown bias resistor, at least that's what my uninformed guess tells me it is) I've not heard it in all its glory (the MF B200 is back and doing sterling service), but if I may say so, it's also cracking. Definitely makes the house shake - despite the 2ft thick walls! Wasn't quite so sure about "Ionisation" - praps it will grow on me!?
 

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