Speakers for a difficult room

lordsummit

lordsummit

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I'm coming to the conclusion having done some serious listening recently and having the boys round that really my next jump should be speakerwards. I want this really to be the last one, I shan't be buying again till something breaks :ffrc:
The problem is the room, due to both WAF and the shape of it there is very little space to move stuff around into, hence I'm stuck with it where it is which means the speakers have to go within about 10 inches of the wall or they will block access to the stairs. The room is about 15' x 15' but the stairs take up about 3 feet of one of the walls and the speakers have to go on the wall which is at right angles to it. The ceilings are quite low with beams, it's a 200 year old farm cottage.
I loved Isaacs Meadowlark Kestrels but even if there was a pair for sale somewhere, which there isn't at the moment I think they will need more space than I can give them. Now please don't laugh I've heard quite a few set-ups with Naim speakers and some of them have sounded pretty good (to these ears anyway) and as my amps are Naim, I have thought about those but Intro's are the only real option here. I thought about Ela's but my Kytes really struggled in the room and they use similair drivers so I don't think that is really the answer.
I've had Castle Chesters suggested and whilst I can't find any of them I can find quite a few sets of Harlechs, but would they argue with my 7'6 ceilings?
At the moment I'm veering towards the Naim as they're designed to work against back walls, and the advice seems to be that they do like a good solid floor, and mine are solid york stone. I would like more tightness in the bass but I also want a less harsh treble that the Kef 35.2's I've currently got offer on rock music at the ridiculous levels I sometimes want to listen at. These are fantastic speakers when you play classical or acoustic music, but they really can't cope with loud rock. When Isaac tried to play the Eels at a level that didn't even stretch his system, my speakers became really hard and started to sibillate (is that a word?) Anyway any ideas gratefully received, we're talking a budget of about £500. Thanks guys
 
Never heard 'em Lord but what about shahinians, they come on castors, aren't fussy about placement and can be rolled back against wall when not listening, HST don't know about prices.

AK
 
I've heard the Quads and they didn't float my boat. I found them rather polite. They weren't something I'd spend £500. TBH they have a very similair tonal balance to what I've got now, they didn't do blood and guts like I'd hoped
 
My 22Ls seethe and rage all I'd want them to - I suspect my new amp is helping in this regard though :). I think it's possible the 22Ls are a bit more upfront than the 21Ls too though.
 
You might be surprised with the Ela's. When I heard them in the shop in Lintone Audio in the metrocentre, I felt they filled the room quite well with sound (with a Rotel RA-02). That was a bigger room than yours (by far). Mine are in my bedroom, which is only slightly smaller than your listening room and they effortlessly give me great sound. The only thing they are not, is bass monsters, but you knew that already. :)
 
lordsummit said:
I'm coming to the conclusion having done some serious listening recently and having the boys round that really my next jump should be speakerwards. I want this really to be the last one, I shan't be buying again till something breaks :ffrc:
The problem is the room, due to both WAF and the shape of it there is very little space to move stuff around into, hence I'm stuck with it where it is which means the speakers have to go within about 10 inches of the wall or they will block access to the stairs. The room is about 15' x 15' but the stairs take up about 3 feet of one of the walls and the speakers have to go on the wall which is at right angles to it. The ceilings are quite low with beams, it's a 200 year old farm cottage.
I loved Isaacs Meadowlark Kestrels but even if there was a pair for sale somewhere, which there isn't at the moment I think they will need more space than I can give them. Now please don't laugh I've heard quite a few set-ups with Naim speakers and some of them have sounded pretty good (to these ears anyway) and as my amps are Naim, I have thought about those but Intro's are the only real option here. I thought about Ela's but my Kytes really struggled in the room and they use similair drivers so I don't think that is really the answer.
I've had Castle Chesters suggested and whilst I can't find any of them I can find quite a few sets of Harlechs, but would they argue with my 7'6 ceilings?
At the moment I'm veering towards the Naim as they're designed to work against back walls, and the advice seems to be that they do like a good solid floor, and mine are solid york stone. I would like more tightness in the bass but I also want a less harsh treble that the Kef 35.2's I've currently got offer on rock music at the ridiculous levels I sometimes want to listen at. These are fantastic speakers when you play classical or acoustic music, but they really can't cope with loud rock. When Isaac tried to play the Eels at a level that didn't even stretch his system, my speakers became really hard and started to sibillate (is that a word?) Anyway any ideas gratefully received, we're talking a budget of about £500. Thanks guys
Click to expand...

Have you tried the kef ref 105/3???, www.hifiguy.co.uk got a pair for £595 and thats a bargin... the are so sweet with very tight bass, can work very near the back wall. I own a pair of these splendid speakers and rate them highly.
Cheers...
 
If you're willing to consider standmounts, try to get yourself a dem of the ATC SCM-12s. A secondhand pair would probably be within your budget if you can find one. They're fatnastic speakers, with superb bass, a very smooth, even frequency response, and they seriously know how to rock. ATC passives (and actives) also have a reputation of working very well with Naim electronics.

Dunc
 
How sensitive are the SCM 12s? I would have though that a Nap140 would struggle to get decent levels out of passive ATCs.

My money would be on either the Rega Elas or Neat Mystiques. The Mystiques are great little speakers with bags of drive and fun. Would go very well with Naim gear.
 
I agree with Robbo, I suspect a NAP140 wouldn't have enough welly for ATCs, which is a shame, as they don't mind being close-ish to a wall, and they're excellent speakers.

I don't like Naim speakers at all, but wall placement is what they're designed for, so you should probably try some. Secondhand they're an easy buy to shift on if you don't like them. You probably won't be happy until you've tried a pair, so I say go for it.

-- Ian
 
The recent crop of ATC passives isn't nearly as insensitive or tough to drive as previous models. The SCM-12 is 85dB/W/m and an easy 8-ohm load.

I can't say I know much about Naim amps, so I really can't comment on the NAP-140, but I have heard the 12s driven by a low-wattage (I think 20 watts or so) valve amp with no trouble at moderate levels and the sound was wonderful. I probably wouldn't want to crank that particular setup to ear-splitting levels, but if a wee valve amp can drive them at satisfying levels then I would think a Naim amp could handle them to considerably higher levels with little difficulty. Definitely worth getting a dem beforehand, tho.

Dunc
 
Wifey's out so have been playing around. There's some interesting stuff out there. Let's imagine for one minute that standmounts would do the job, what about

Celestion A1's
Elac CL310i's (These look seriously cool :D )

Or floorstanders some of these are pushing the boat out
Pink Triangle ventrical
Proac Studio 125's
Cura CA21

Also found some Castle Chesters, they look very nice, and transmission line to boot... but they are rather old....
 
Last edited by a moderator:
lordsummit said:
Wifey's out so have been playing around. There's some interesting stuff out there. Let's imagine for one minute that standmounts would do the job, what about

Celestion A1's
Elac CL310i's (These look seriously cool :D )

Or floorstanders some of these are pushing the boat out
Pink Triangle ventrical
Proac Studio 125's
Cura CA21

Also found some Castle Chesters, they look very nice, and transmission line to boot... but they are rather old....
Click to expand...

i found the 125's boring and lumpy in the bass, better can be had for the money
 
Bob's kinda got into my psyche. The Naims on paper and when I've heard them at shows have floated my boat, 20cm is quite a big woofer :)
I'm also tempted by one or two other things I've seen, The pink triangle looks amazing as do the cura's, but at the end of the day they have to fit into the room. If they have no bass though I'll be gutted :mad:
 
If the meadowlarks are off the menu, I'd be inclined to look towards the Elas also. Transmission lines are more room filling for a given size of speaker than they have any right to be.

Otherwise, you could see if you can find a pair of meadowlark swifts. These are smaller and might be a bit easier to position.
 
M'lud. Whatever you go for you really must try in your own room (demo, or get on SOR, or buy at a price you're confident you can sell on at). Also I found speakers to be the most difficult personal choice, and found plenty at high prices that didn't come anywhere near as close to my ideal speaker as several at lower prices. Since you like the Kestrels so much, I'd have a word with Isaac and see whether you can bribe him (e.g. with a curry at that excellent curry house you keep on telling us about) to let you have them round at your place for a session and see whether they do fit or not. 10" from the front wall may be a bit close though....my Herons (the Kestrels' big brother but one) won't really go much closer than about 2' without getting a bit muddy. If they do work, it may be worth contacting either Meadowlark direct or the UK distributors to see if they know of any going 2nd hand.

On the other hand, given their low prevalence in this country, if you want new speakers NOW, under no circumstances ever listen to any Meadowlarks again :cry: . I did find that the only speakers that avoided messing up the mid highs and ambience in orchestral music had first-order crossovers (rationale may be something to do with avoiding phase distorion in the crossover region) - so that may be something to look for.

FWIW...the two most repulsive pairs of speakers I've ever had demoed with classical music were Shahinian Starters and Naim Allaes, on Naim gear....narrowly pipping Sideshowbob's SCM-10s for that worthy prize (although they did sound quite good on his "music" :D ). Actually, the Allaes did come through fairly clearly in the upper mids where most other speakers sounded quite congested, but were quite vile everywhere else (and no discernable bass at all ;) ).

And I hope you have comfy chairs, because no-one ever expects...the Meadowlark mafia :eek: .
 
I have Cura CA5s (sealed boxed mini-monitors, lovely) and CA10s (larger standmounters, rear-ported, not as good as the CA5s, but good nonetheless). Haven't heard Cura floorstanders but bear in mind you'll find it very difficult to sell them on if you don't like them, as hardly anyone has much experience with them and the company is no longer in business. IIRC they have a rear port, too, so no good close to the wall.

-- Ian
 
Just bought the last remaining pair of Kestrel HR's in captivity. Hopefully they'll arrive tomorrow. The wife's out in the evening, I'll slip them in then and be ready with the coconut oil :D
Here's to hoping they do the trick
 

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