I notice recently that a number of members, suggest spending more money on speakers than other aspects of their system. I am in the process of looking for a pair of speakers to "settle down with". I have a fairly decent set of amps (avi 2000 monoblocks) which arent the ultimate in transparency etc, but are musical. Iam very happy with my cdp.......should I upgrade the amp and speakers ...or just the speakers and go for a really good pair? I have a pair of pmc fb1s on the way soon, but will try others also. Any thoughts.
speakers....
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Purite Audio
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Speakers will probably have a larger quantifiable effect than other component , I would borrow as many as I can and see what you like, also try some panels horns etc. Speakers perhaps you wouldn't have initially considered.
Nothing defines the system more than speakers. The preamp is next, followed by the amps.
If your budget allows, horns/compression drivers are a good way to go (but not all are created equal). Ribbons, such as the Apogee Divas are a good sound also (although not perfect). The KEF R207/2 is a good speaker for the money too. If your budget is more restricted then some excellent speakers that 'punch above their weight' are the Monitor Audio GR60s or GS60s, and PSB Synchrony 1. These get the fundamentals right, are dynamic, fast, coherent, image well and are fun to listen to. They come in at a low price considering their performance standard and build quality.
If your budget allows, horns/compression drivers are a good way to go (but not all are created equal). Ribbons, such as the Apogee Divas are a good sound also (although not perfect). The KEF R207/2 is a good speaker for the money too. If your budget is more restricted then some excellent speakers that 'punch above their weight' are the Monitor Audio GR60s or GS60s, and PSB Synchrony 1. These get the fundamentals right, are dynamic, fast, coherent, image well and are fun to listen to. They come in at a low price considering their performance standard and build quality.
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what happened to rubbish in rubbish out .......if your source is poor the speakers are not going to recover lost music signal ...
get real chaps
I'd suggest building a set of speakers using fostex drivers say a full range horns there are loads of simple design ....would cost you about £100 and a little time
get real chaps
I'd suggest building a set of speakers using fostex drivers say a full range horns there are loads of simple design ....would cost you about £100 and a little time
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bottleneck
talks a load of rubbish
it's old news, but ''source first'' comes back to the bad old days of really low quality turntables. From there this idea seems never to have died.
Sure some dacs and transports sound a bit different to each other, but it's another league of difference to the effect of the room, the speakers position in the room and the actual speaker itself.
I think you're right to throw weight at this part of your system.
Heard the FB1's - not bad at all. I do think if you like what they do, then IPL offer a lot more for less money.
Consider the IPL 5 - a ribbon, ceramic mid and 10" kevlar transmission line speaker. £700 in kit form, probably about £400 if you pay a local carpenter to make them for you. I am currently using this speaker with it's original drive units and can say it's better than anything I've heard new that retails less than £2.5k
http://www.iplacoustics.co.uk/ipl_acoustics_____transmission_l.htm
Of course it's not the only pair of good speakers you can buy for reasonable money, quad 57's are the bargain they've always been for example, and there are loads more. I simply mentioned the IPL 5's because they're a ''lot more'' of a transmission line than the FB1's for less money.
Sure some dacs and transports sound a bit different to each other, but it's another league of difference to the effect of the room, the speakers position in the room and the actual speaker itself.
I think you're right to throw weight at this part of your system.
Heard the FB1's - not bad at all. I do think if you like what they do, then IPL offer a lot more for less money.
Consider the IPL 5 - a ribbon, ceramic mid and 10" kevlar transmission line speaker. £700 in kit form, probably about £400 if you pay a local carpenter to make them for you. I am currently using this speaker with it's original drive units and can say it's better than anything I've heard new that retails less than £2.5k
http://www.iplacoustics.co.uk/ipl_acoustics_____transmission_l.htm
Of course it's not the only pair of good speakers you can buy for reasonable money, quad 57's are the bargain they've always been for example, and there are loads more. I simply mentioned the IPL 5's because they're a ''lot more'' of a transmission line than the FB1's for less money.
I was very close to bidding on a pair of quad electrostats the other day....the 67s...Ive been told that theyre a minefield to find a good pair, but excellent if you can get a good set....any thoughts on these, or other speakers 2nd hand up to about 2k....thanks for all suggestions so far....andy there are a pair of shahinian compass knocking about also, for just over a grand.....any one heard these?
More than that, I'd say.
You will probably be able to blindly pick speakers that you know against a couple of other pairs, if they are compared in identical systems.
Do the same with digital sources and see how you go.
Steve
bottleneck
talks a load of rubbish
How big is your room Banpe? What are the measurements, and what direction will you fire the speakers?
This will help people I feel.
For example, if you said 15x20 I might well reccomend some Tannoy 15 dmt
http://www.sound-light-company.co.uk/tannoy-tannoy-system-15-dmt-ii-p-7871.html
but not if your room is 8 x11.
This will help people I feel.
For example, if you said 15x20 I might well reccomend some Tannoy 15 dmt
http://www.sound-light-company.co.uk/tannoy-tannoy-system-15-dmt-ii-p-7871.html
but not if your room is 8 x11.
im afraid that these days i just dont agree with source first. Its nonsense... even a fairly average CD player is capable of revealing information and detail that exceeds pretty much any pair of speakers in existence.
Speakers are an unbelievably primitive and crude device, and i think that these days it makes a great deal of sense to spend the most budget on your speakers as they will almost certainly give you the full potential of anything you have downstream.
If you have a more expensive source and cheap speakers.. whats the point? your not getting everything your source has to give.
My speakers are by far the best component in my system, and far exceed the talents of anything else i own. But it works. I know that im getting the most from my dac and amps.
Speakers are an unbelievably primitive and crude device, and i think that these days it makes a great deal of sense to spend the most budget on your speakers as they will almost certainly give you the full potential of anything you have downstream.
If you have a more expensive source and cheap speakers.. whats the point? your not getting everything your source has to give.
My speakers are by far the best component in my system, and far exceed the talents of anything else i own. But it works. I know that im getting the most from my dac and amps.
Had been looking at IPL - if I'm reading right £450 of the £700 is drivers and crossovers. Anyway, would be interested in how you are finding them and if possible which commercial speakers you think they are closest to.
Spend on your speakers and room acoustics.
Dali make some nice stuff, and you might want to keep an eye out for second-hand. Maybe also some PMC speakers from the pro range like IB1. Or AB2 (saw some on hi fi for sale, nice speakers).
Dali make some nice stuff, and you might want to keep an eye out for second-hand. Maybe also some PMC speakers from the pro range like IB1. Or AB2 (saw some on hi fi for sale, nice speakers).
bottleneck
talks a load of rubbish
Hi Coda - Come for a listen if you like. You're right in your calculations - the earlier pair I have .. I checked the RRP of the drivers.
The tweeter is a Morel, the mid is a vifa and the bass unit is IPL's own. It's decent stuff, about £450 in parts. I can't see him making more than a hundred or two per kit, it's crazy value.
When you compare the value of the drivers with commercial offerings (and the complexity of the build of a TL) you really have to spend a few grand to match the big IPL's if you're going for off the shelf retail stuff.
One day I'll return to big horns when I have the room, space, and effort. Until then, these do a grand job.
In terms of commercial speakers, they rather remind me of Proac D80's. The Proac's are a little more forward sounding to my ears.
Perhaps a better comparison are the bigger Heco's. These have a nice sound if you're looking for good value and something new rather than kit.
http://www.puresound.info/id9.html
They sound nice with a VFM valve amp too.
The IPL's on the other hand take a lot of stick in the bass to wake them up. I have a crown on the bass of mine and a valve amp on the mid/treble. This gives them a nice kick up the arse, and really makes them shine.
The tweeter is a Morel, the mid is a vifa and the bass unit is IPL's own. It's decent stuff, about £450 in parts. I can't see him making more than a hundred or two per kit, it's crazy value.
When you compare the value of the drivers with commercial offerings (and the complexity of the build of a TL) you really have to spend a few grand to match the big IPL's if you're going for off the shelf retail stuff.
One day I'll return to big horns when I have the room, space, and effort. Until then, these do a grand job.
In terms of commercial speakers, they rather remind me of Proac D80's. The Proac's are a little more forward sounding to my ears.
Perhaps a better comparison are the bigger Heco's. These have a nice sound if you're looking for good value and something new rather than kit.
http://www.puresound.info/id9.html
They sound nice with a VFM valve amp too.
The IPL's on the other hand take a lot of stick in the bass to wake them up. I have a crown on the bass of mine and a valve amp on the mid/treble. This gives them a nice kick up the arse, and really makes them shine.
So they still need a bit of driving even thought they are quoted as pretty efficient?
Thanks for the offer of a listen - I think Ilfracombe is probably closer (you moved recently didn't you - any further west?)
I see Puresound are showing with Aspara at Heathrow...
bottleneck
talks a load of rubbish
yeah, and the head office of IPL are going to have the new ribbon version you'd actually buy, rather than the one I've got.
The house is on the market, but not moved yet. Early days
**edit**
yeah, the bass likes some power. Heard them with a cyrus 50 watter (I think it was) and it needed more.
The house is on the market, but not moved yet. Early days
**edit**
yeah, the bass likes some power. Heard them with a cyrus 50 watter (I think it was) and it needed more.
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Speakers...
Hi
I heard a pair of Magneplanar 0.6 speakers at a hi-fi show in Belfast around 8/9 years ago, I then bought myself a pair of these Magneplanar's, I have NEVER looked back, totally love them, can't ever see myself returning to a box speaker, period!
I did hear a pair of Dali Megaline speakers at a recent hi-fi show in Manchester at the end of January this year, thought they were totally awesome, twelve bass/mid drivers with each speaker and a full ribbon tweeter running down the full seven and a half foot length, wonderful wonderful sound!!!
That's my input guys....
pete
Hi
I heard a pair of Magneplanar 0.6 speakers at a hi-fi show in Belfast around 8/9 years ago, I then bought myself a pair of these Magneplanar's, I have NEVER looked back, totally love them, can't ever see myself returning to a box speaker, period!
I did hear a pair of Dali Megaline speakers at a recent hi-fi show in Manchester at the end of January this year, thought they were totally awesome, twelve bass/mid drivers with each speaker and a full ribbon tweeter running down the full seven and a half foot length, wonderful wonderful sound!!!
That's my input guys....
pete
I don;'t think any one is talking about "cheap" speakers.
Its a happy medium in all things
I agree with I think bottlenecks observation about turntables of old (to an extent). I think the idea is still a valid one though. Like I say , tweaks done to my front end (cd player) have made (IMO) far reaching differences.
A speaker build is next (when my my bust back
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The most important aspect of any audio system these days IME is the interface between room and loudspeaker - sources are now far less of a variable. I've been on about this for five years or so. I would therefore suggest initially setting aside the majority of one's time and budget to buy the best possible loudspeaker that integrates properly with your living room. That does not neccessarily mean the biggest, nor the most expensive.
That means a loudspeaker that will provide good headroom capability and whose F3 point and roll off characteristics mate well with your living space. The task of choosing a loudspeaker would be made a great deal easier if audiophool companies bothered to advertise such parameters rather than steeping their boxes in mystique.
All possible budget and time should be dedicated to optimising this part of the system - after which the remainder should be used to find a reasonable source and an amplifier which drives the speakers selected without strain to the required levels. If the speakers that work best in your living room are less costly than anticipated don't baulk at buying them - put the money saved towards some new music or a nice bit of furniture to hide the electronics in.
That means a loudspeaker that will provide good headroom capability and whose F3 point and roll off characteristics mate well with your living space. The task of choosing a loudspeaker would be made a great deal easier if audiophool companies bothered to advertise such parameters rather than steeping their boxes in mystique.
All possible budget and time should be dedicated to optimising this part of the system - after which the remainder should be used to find a reasonable source and an amplifier which drives the speakers selected without strain to the required levels. If the speakers that work best in your living room are less costly than anticipated don't baulk at buying them - put the money saved towards some new music or a nice bit of furniture to hide the electronics in.