System matching - amp to go with Thorens and Eltax

Hello all.

Just got back into hi-fi and my Thorens TD-150MkII has been reconditioned and is waiting for me to collect. Have had a new stylus put on the Goldring 1042 cartridge.

That used to pair with a Yamaha AX-500 amplifier and some old Mission speakers, don't have those any more.

I have been listening to a Rega RP3 which I bought from new with a Denon PMA-100M amplifier and Liberty Eltax 5+ speakers. The Thorens will replace the Rega and I think that leaves the amplifier as the next upgrade.

So not having looked at any of this for years, and browsing what's available now, bearing in mind I'll be getting the amp from Audio T (who are sorting the TT) I seem to be leaning towards the Rega Brio-R amplifier. I have no fixed budget or idea of one, it just "seems about right".

That has its own phono stage, so I wouldn't need the Pro-ject one I've been using, though I then wonder if the money would be better spent on an amp without one (so more of the money goes on the basic amp SQ and not the extra circuit) but that one does seem well rated.

Many of the amps have onboard DACs and digital gadgetry but I'm not interested in any of that, I'm really looking to just play my old vinyl again. I am interested in hearing some 192/24 digital audio - maybe a Naim streaming box - at some point, but that's some way away, so I'd prefer to keep that entirely separate to what I'm doing now.

I seem to remember the character of my old Yahama amp being crisp and quite dry with good midrange (same for the G1042 cartridge) and I tracked down some reviews where others concur. I have little idea of the character of the Denon PMA-100M we have but my guess is that it is dirty, slow and heavy sounding with poor midrange and detail and lacks finesse. It is old, to be fair.

The speakers seem to be described as "slightly brash", they are sand filled, they will get replaced in time. My problem is that in terms of matching I have no frames of reference for how each of the things "sounds".

I listen to a mix of electronic dance, some soul/blues and a bit of Pink Floyd. Fast tight bass with enough of it, though not excessive, good clean midrange and timing/stereo imagery are the main requirements.

I'll ask for demos (will mean dragging all the kit down to the dealer), but can anyone provide any insight into that Denon amp? Are Yahama amplifiers still good - was 15 years ago. Is £500 a reasonable price point? Will I hear anything more at £1000 with the kit I have? (Can test that in a demo). So many questions

Mark

 

Hi Mark,

You'll probably get different opinions on this but I'd say that your those Eltax speakers are the weak link in your system rather than the Denon amp. The Eltax speakers are most definitely at the budget end of the market and changing to higher quality speakers will probably give you the best 'bang for your buck'.

In the past I've owned a couple of sets of Eltax floorstanders in the £240-£350 bracket (price when new 10 years ago) and I was blown away by the upgrade when I got my first really decent speakers.

Personally, I rather enjoy buying second hand HiFi as you'll usually get much more performance for your money. Apart from the digital arena HiFi development moves very slowly indeed and so speakers and amps which were great 10 or 20 years ago will still be just as great now.

 

That's great feedback. I wonder how far the description "dirty, slow and heavy sounding with poor midrange and detail and lacking finesse" applies to the Eltax speakers. They did improve with careful (as in precise) positioning and sand filling.

But since I only have those and the Denon to pair together it's very hard to identify which is responsible for what. I was half tempted to try to get hold of another Yamaha AX-500 amp second hand to compare directly, but I may very well have been looking in the wrong place as you say.

There are lots of reviews of those speakers online and people seem to rave about them (many saying the opposite of the above) but then most of those people have picked up a pair of them for about £25 and at that price they probably are very good. I shall look at speakers too, they have to be floor standing because of the room layout that we have.

 

In my experience the Eltax speakers represent great value for money but they are just too constrained by budget limitations to be properly good (cheap drive units and a very basic crossover).

I'm not familiar with your Denon amp but I did a Google search and internally it looks decently well made and I'd be surprised if it didn't sound OK. I'm not saying that it's not worth upgrading the amp at a later date but I'd start with a speaker upgrade if it were my money.

My first really decent speakers cost me less than £300 2nd hand and there are plenty of options out there.

 

Mark DT, just check your amp first. I’ve had a similar problem in my car audio system recently where I didn’t know what was wrong with my speakers, they seemed physically ok but sounded like they had just been thrown off a cliff onto rocks. It turned out that although my amp had enough rating and was alright on paper, it didn’t have enough quality, that what I can say. I bought an old Japanese amp later on from Kenwood and it works like a charm. No issues ever since.

Regards,
M. Caliskan
http://blog.7pcb.com/

 

Does the amp sound ok with CD and or tuner? I agree with mjp above .. Denon amps are fine budget amps and the eltax speakers are probably letting the side down.

On ebay of late there have been quite a few B&W DM2 and DM2a loudspeakers for sale. They will give most modern designs up to and over a grand, a good run for their money. They are a kind of transmission line design so have oodles of bass and are easy to drive.

Second hand the opportunities are endless .. check on ebay then cross reference with google searches looking for reviews on the products ... a prime example of an audio bargain is the KEF 101 which was their take on the same makeup as the LS35A .. however the 101 produce a decent volume without blowing up are absolutely superb and come in for about £300 when a pair of LS35As will set you back anything over £500 to a grand or more ...

Happy hunting