Thinking of jacking in my business in

I got one of the higher end wireless routers for this client and its still not working properly, I think he wants always on internet wirelessly which will never happen in a huge victorian house.

He wants his money back now for the router but not the adaptor :(

I don't do PC builds anymore simply because for £60 its far too much hassle.

PS The only good side about wireless networks being a pain is I do a lot fixing other peoples installations :D
 
Dear Amazingtrade,

Just a little advice from an oldie, given in good faith.
I have read your posts over the last several years with great interest as so many of your life's problems relate so closely to those of my son. You have made a big step forward in your life in starting up your own business: 40 years ago, I did the same - a building Company. Hey guess what, you start to build an extension to a client's house and suddenly you are to blame because th c/h boiler has packed up. Easy to get angry and look at the client as a money-grabbing, get-it-for free enemy. HE IS NOT. He is your client and as such, the heart and core of your business. Only clients allow you to have a business at all and are therefore King.

You have been given stirling advice by other members of this forum, eg a client has a further problem and has come straight back to you. You, unfortunately, have taken his return as a moan, a freebie or a criticism. Handling of these situations comes down to age and experience, ie., maturity. Maturity has to be learned and believe me, it's a long road. Put in your mind that the client is a friend and not the enemy - it will affect your outlook, body language and approach. If you are not making money, it is not the client's fault and you need to look at your business structure.

Please don't give up - nobody ever said that running your own business was going to be easy. Knocks the spots off of working for someone else though.

Kind regards,

Dave
 
coxybabe said:
Dear Amazingtrade,

Just a little advice from an oldie, given in good faith.
I have read your posts over the last several years with great interest as so many of your life's problems relate so closely to those of my son. You have made a big step forward in your life in starting up your own business: 40 years ago, I did the same - a building Company. Hey guess what, you start to build an extension to a client's house and suddenly you are to blame because th c/h boiler has packed up. Easy to get angry and look at the client as a money-grabbing, get-it-for free enemy. HE IS NOT. He is your client and as such, the heart and core of your business. Only clients allow you to have a business at all and are therefore King.

You have been given stirling advice by other members of this forum, eg a client has a further problem and has come straight back to you. You, unfortunately, have taken his return as a moan, a freebie or a criticism. Handling of these situations comes down to age and experience, ie., maturity. Maturity has to be learned and believe me, it's a long road. Put in your mind that the client is a friend and not the enemy - it will affect your outlook, body language and approach. If you are not making money, it is not the client's fault and you need to look at your business structure.

Please don't give up - nobody ever said that running your own business was going to be easy. Knocks the spots off of working for someone else though.

Kind regards,

Dave
Click to expand...

very wise words indeed :)
 
The problem seems to be that Amazingtrade is setting up wireless networks for customers, and then when the wireless network starts playing up he is is getting called up and hassled by the customer, who obviously (perhaps unreasonably) expects it to work forever without problems. It can be very difficult in that situation to charge again as the customer will argue, rightly or wrongly, that the original work was not up to scratch - otherwsie it wouldn't have gone wrong.

If you take your car to the garage to get a problem (say the air conditoning) fixed, and after paying for the repair the air conditioning breaks down again after a week, you would presumably take it back to garage and expect them to sort it out under warranty free of charge.
 
Yup Unclepuncle, good point.

Computer networking, especially in the land of MS, has always been hit or miss, wireless networking probably more so. Hell's bells, 3 months ago my wife could access the internet via the network to my computer as the dial-up one. Suddenly and for no reason, now she can't: the icon in the task bar shows that she is connected to the Internet via my computer but IE does not see this connection. I don't know why this is and one day I am sure that whilst fiddling with IP adresses and the suchlike, it might suddenly work.

Now to my side of the business - building. There are certain things in the building trade that give rise to "problems" and these problem inevitably lead to a discussion with client as to blame, etc. Initially, and especially without long-term experience, one "gives in" just to keep the client happy. On the basis of once bitten, twice shy, the next time similar work occurs, one advises the client that that area of building has its own idiosynchrises and sets out precisely what the framework of guarantee will be.Only experience will allow AmazingTrade to make the balance between profit and client satisfaction - always an impossible equation. However, knowing the potential pitfalls (now) with wireless networking, he surely should be able to phrase his initial estimate/work schedule in such a way that the delicate nature of thier set-up can render them sometimes unreliable: any call-back would then be based on a further charge or under guarantee.

Back to the Building Industry - for me, the greatest problem is clients interfering or fiddling with things once you've left site!! Love 'em and hate 'em at the same time.

Regards,

Dave
 
Lurking for over 2 years, and just 20 posts.

You should feel honored Mr Trade :)

Listen to the man, Don't give up!
 
I've just had to give a refund but I explained the design of the house and other factors just meant a wireless network wasn't going to happen and he was happy with that. I still made some money on the job because I did other things.

I just walked out of a job tonight, a customer wanted me to setup her wireless network, I said on the phone it will be £30 (to cover hassle). When I got there she said £30 was too much and she only has £15. I just laughhed, said nobodyt will do it cheaper and politely walked out.

I still don't know if I am just going through a very bad patch or this business is just not viable.

You always expect hassle and always had a bit since starting the business, its just lately its all come at once.
 
AT have you looked at aiming your service more at small businesses since last time it was talked about on the forum?

I might go along to some local business clubs / meetings, you know the thing. Maybe go round the local accountants to see if you can be cheeky and pop up a little advert in the place. See if they need any help themselves! Post your leaflets round the business parks.

I'm just thinking off the top of my head, but I bet business will be more likely to realise you are also running a business!
 
The problem with business customers is the hassle is also much more severe, so I need to provide instand warranty, i.e if I did a network and their internet failed I would have to go back instantly to sort it out. Basicaly for business work I need to be charging a lot more :). It is somthing I am looking into though.

I am thinking of seeing a laywer, become a LTD company and get lots of terms of contract forms drawn up.

I must admit must customers have been nice and understanding even when problems have happened.

I am now also only going to do wireless networks after I do a site survey in which they pay £25 to me for :D That way though know what they will get.
 
bob mccluckie said:
£25 for a site survey?
You won't be driving a Maybach any time soon then?
Click to expand...

Well its not a structurial survey, I will just have a report to check out varius materials i.e plasterboards (good), 3 layers of bricks not good.
 
Tenson said:
AT have you looked at aiming your service more at small businesses since last time it was talked about on the forum?
Click to expand...

That's what I would do if you are serious. It will cost you more but trust me, they will definately pay more.

Out of interest, why do you feel the need to go Ltd? You can make your Terms & Conditions watertight without doing that.
 
Sorry but I have to come back in here.

Amazing Trade is a good name - I'm amazed that you have any trade!!! If the construction of a house has an impact on the feasibility of a wireless network, then why on earth don't you point this out to the client before you start? To put in a wireless network, get paid, find out via a now irate client that it doesn't work because you hadn't done the groundwork and then have to reimburse him, is complete madness.

An example from the Buillding Trade. I prepare an estimate to build an extension: I have to work on some sort of basis for the foundation depth and to do this, I work on the Buiding Regulation minimum and eperience of the area with regard to soil conditions. There are now 2 possibilities:- I charge ahead and find the ground conditions are unsuitable at that depth (or the LA building Inspector requires deeper footings) or I advise the client beforehand that the estimate is based on a notional foundation depth but being an unknown, could give rise to extra costs at an agreed rate. The former possibility could easily go wrong, immediately giving rise to a non-profitable job if I swallow the extra costs or a difficult discussion with the client to get him to accept the extra cost: at the beginning of a contract, not the best option!! If the client then needed to know beforehand his costs in detail, I would suggest a ground survey, at cost, beforehand. No, the second possibility is of course the professional way of doing it - get the contractual details sorted out clearly at first!!!!

In AT's case, he already knows the problems of wireless networking: why on earth not explain the possible downsides first of all to a client, then propose a survey (at cost) if he wants to go further, upon which a feasibilty projection can be made and an estimate given? It is no good just grabbing at any job just to get the money in.

On present form, I am not sure whether AT's approach is sufficiently professional for business clients: plus, payment is often on a 1 to 3 month time basis.

Why a Ltd. Company for God's sake? You will need to file Company Accounts, have an Accountant prepare them and end up worse off. Plus, as a Director, you still have a legal responsibilty to properly direct the Company: it's not a firewall if you cock things up. If you believe in what you are doing, then you do not need to hide behind limited liability protection. A Limited Company for a sole trader speaks volumes for your uncertainties.

Like all sole traders, AT is learning the hard way that starting and running a business is not the easy way to loads of money as is so often depicted on telly these days. It takes yeras of hard graft and the ability to keep getting up after each setback.

If AmazingTrade, you would like to chat things over,then send me a PM.

Regards to all,

Dave
 
I am no expert but if you are going to go LTD etc I would imagine a VAT man will become a lot more interested in you.
 
AT,
I'd like to expand upon part of Dave's reply
If the construction of a house has an impact on the feasibility of a wireless network, then why on earth don't you point this out to the client before you start? To put in a wireless network, get paid, find out via a now irate client that it doesn't work because you hadn't done the groundwork and then have to reimburse him, is complete madness.
Click to expand...
If installing or fixing of wireless networks is a major service you are offering then you had better get it right both in terms of the correct costing of your time plus ensuring that the kit you sell is fit for purpose. As to trhe costing of your time I trust that you will be realistic about this and don't delude yourself. If you are having trouble please take professional advice from an accountant or book-keeper as they I expect have seen problems like your's a million times and would offer business saving advice for a price.

The question of kit being suitable for the job in hand ie going through walls & floors; being quick and easy to both install and trouble shoot and costing such that you can make a profit after taxes and running costs (see above) should also be addressed. I would expect you to restrict these offerings to a minimum thus ensuring that you can install and fix with a minimum expendeture on your part of both time and effort.

I'd expect you to partcise installing and troubleshooting whenever you are not on the job. I would also expect you to have a tool kit of diagonstic disks with a view to slipping on into the customers machine so as to be able to know if the hardware and software are up to the job. I'd also expect you to have a bit of kit that would enable you to simulate some of the functions of a wireless network so when wandering about the house you will get an idea as to which combinations of kit you are offering will work.

Now for you to charge enough to make a profit after paying all taxes then all this should be slick, quick and painless for both you and the customer.

All this may sound a bit daunting at first but if you can satisifie the customer's needs at a price that allows you to make your expected amount of profit then you may/might/could be rich sometime soonish.

Branson was once a business virgin and now he own's Virgin and has a pile of cash in the bank - it all takes a bit of planning and a bit of time:)
 
You're learning lessons AT. Take them on board and learn from them so that your business gets better and easier to run. Don't throw it away now.
 
All solid advice above.

In AT's defence he is learning as he goes. What some might describe as naive, I would say describe as simply a lack of experience.

One problem from the outset is that domestic clients are invariably more difficult than small business clients, which are invariably more difficult than mid-sized clients, etc.

Equally selling to domestic clients can be easier because they are ubiquitous and they tend (or are expected) to pay upon completion rather than 45 days after being invoiced.

What I'm driving at is:
a) be realistic about your costs and risks before you decide what your rates should be - you need to factor in time and cost spent solving old problems to work out what your true gross profit is.

b) establish, based on your recent experiences, a methodology which aims to protect your interests whilst being professional in your practices. Many customers will see agreements and procedures as a sign of quality rather than being off putting. Caveats about WiFi, procedures about what you will do if kit fails, etc, are all going to make your work more predictable and hopefully profitable.

c) as coxybabe has stated - customer service problems need to be handled on the basis that customers are valuable. If a customer is being a genuine pain deal with them politely but equally don't over promise and under deliver. Decide whether an after sales problem is due to your own inexperience, lack of agreement or otherwise - if so swallow the consequences, learn from your mistake and come out more experienced. Don't blame the customer.
 

Latest posts

Back
Top